The Experience Products Phenomenon: How to 10x Your Sales and Your Clients’ Results

Episode 9

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You’re welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

The Experience Products Phenomenon: How to 10x Your Sales and Your Clients’ Results

Welcome everyone, our topic today is the Experience Products phenomenon; how to 10x your sales and your client’s results. Our guest today is Marisa Murgatroyd. She is the founder of Live Your Message, where she turns entrepreneurs into online superheroes.

One of the things we will be talking about today is a very new kind of way to create trainings and products. You can go and get a free video and training series, and also a workbook or playbook here. We are going to talk more about this and how you can create your own product in such a way that is going to have people wanting to share to other people and make it go viral. It is brand new. I have invited Marisa here because I did not even know what this was. She’s created a whole new category of experience.

What do you mean by that when you are creating a whole new category of experience for people?

That’s a really good question, Susan, and thanks so much for hosting me. I am super excited to share about it. First of all, let me set the context. Basically, right now, there is a revolution that is happening online that really affects you, me, and our ability to earn money online. There is, as of today, more than billion websites online and every year there are more than 300 million more websites coming online. If you look at the top Ivy League universities, they’ve released their entire course curriculum online at no charge. Google and YouTube are these massive libraries of free information products. So many entrepreneurs are out there creating training based on information. What they don’t realize is that the value of their information is rapidly diminishing to almost nothing because everyone, your customers, have at their fingertips the hundreds of thousands and millions of hours of YouTube trainings and Google articles all the time.

What not a lot of people talk about in this industry is that with information based products, the studies actually show that only about 3% of people ever finish those kinds of products and get results from them. That is astonishing and shocking. What I’ve seen in this industry of online training, is for the first time since this industry was created last year, that industry has been in decline and has seen negative growth, downward growth. The reason why is because so many people are getting left behind by trainings and products that are based on information.

The market doesn’t value this any more, it is based on an old school 19th century way of teaching and education that doesn’t fit our 21st century audiences. So people aren’t completing these products that they are not getting results from these products. They are not continuing to reinvest in the people that they buy these products from much less spread the word about these products. and share them to others.

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

Experience products are the revolution in online training.

What I realized in this context of what is going on now historically is that info products pretty much are a dying category of product. They are getting less and less valuable and people are going to pay less and less attention to them. Entrepreneurs will have to market harder for fewer sales at lower price points. It is like trying to start creating information products in today’s age is like trying to open a video store in the age of Netflix – it just isn’t relevant anymore. It has been taking a long time for the industry to catch up with trends that are happening in the world of entertainment and trends that are happening in the world of reality TV. Those industries have really been able to captivate people’s attention , hold their attention. Just two months ago Pokemon Go was released by Nintendo. In a single month, the very first month this app was released it made $200 million in sales. You’ve got stampedes of people in New York City, Los Angeles, Rome, and all over the world who are playing this game in the streets. Running through the streets to capture these little virtual creatures.

If you can even imagine that level of enthusiasm and excitement about your products and your  information around topics that are life changing and world changing. Can you imagine having people running to participate and making changes in their lives that actually mean something? It is possible to take whole principles that are going on in these other industries, and apply them to the world of information, knowledge, expertise, and training that actually does real value and good in the world.

I just heard on the radio or read that millennials don’t want to ever pay for information. They are so used to getting it for free, and they grew up in a different era than we did. They think information should be free and they don’t value it, they don’t want to pay for it. How do you then still apply principles of gaming and video games and these principles of being interactive in experience products and actually getting people away from their computers and iPhones and getting them to interact with their world? How does this apply to actual product or an actual training? What would that look like?

With Experience Products it is not just the principles of gaming, it is the principles of the brain’s reward center. We have an ancient system in our brains that releases happy chemicals like serotonin and dopamine that causes us to experience joy, happiness, and triumph. When we win and when we are set up to achieve our expectations and move towards them and experience wins, we are flooded with positive emotions which is why video games are so effective; every few seconds you are winning something. When you think about products – and it’s not just products, this works for services, coaching, or consulting, this works for any class of offer where you need people to take action on their own lives – especially regular repeat action in order to get results.

One of the ten core concepts of Experience Products that I teach in the video training in the workbook that Susan mentioned here. One of the principles of Experience Products is the principle of constant wins. How do you create a game where people can win in your product or service or in your coaching? That means winning from day zero, which means starting to achieve a win during the marketing phase of your product. That people have an experience where they get a result, or they make a choice or they do something that maybe has eluded them before in the past. As soon as they sign up to get whatever product or service, they immediately are set up for the very next win. For example, what often happens in the realm of info products, you sign up for an info product, and then sometimes it’s a course that starts two or three weeks later and you get bombarded by three, or four, or five emails with different instructions and the receipts and the things to do.

What happens for most people is they feel like they don’t have time for this, and they aren’t going to come back later. Even if they need one of those things, and they go to a membership site and they log on and there’s all this stuff everywhere and they don’t know what to do. For most people, what that creates is what I call a negative experience escalation. They have a series of experiences with your product that instead of getting them to action and getting them on track for their first win, are creating barriers and obstacles to their success.

What that does is that in addition to having a rewards center in our brain we have a punishment center, when we are not winning and not moving towards the goals and outcomes that we set for ourselves, the brain blocks the flow of these happy chemicals and we start to feel frustrated and overwhelmed and a whole series of negative emotions. For many people, we were told to avoid something called a thud factor when we create these products.

The more information, the more of a thud it makes when it lands on your desk or wherever it happens to be. What I’ve realized is that thud factor – and I used to make products with the thud factor, I’d slave away for months at a time doing dozens and dozens of videos because I wanted to give every little piece of information. I thought – and this model is based on being the guru and having all the answers, so it makes people spend a lot of time creating products that are a lot less doable for people. What I’ve realized is the thud factor is really just the sound of your customers’ hopes and dreams getting squashed.

That’s so sad – the thud factor. So what you are saying is that it is so overwhelming with information. You as the guru and the teacher, you want to give everything. That’s like dumping your whole mind and everything that you know into someone else’s. That’s so overwhelming and it can’t be done. Then people feel discouraged and they then give up.

Yes absolutely, it’s also for the product creator, it slows them down. As I’m trying to create the product as this masterpiece, trying to create War and Peace, where someone just wants the Cliff Notes version. I don’t know about you, but I love to read and I haven’t had a chance to finish a whole book in two years!

Since Experience Products is experiential, and I think it would be really helpful for people to be able to see something, What does it look like to be able to have something land in your inbox and have an immediate win? What does that look like, even from the marketing perspective, because we are looking at this from two different perspectives. One from the person who is creating this product and the other is the person who is consuming these experience products. Let’s look first at it from the point of view of the person marketing it, what does it look like if you landed into my inbox, and I was then rewarded and had a series of wins and that released the dopamine and the happiness in my brain?

Sure, let me give you two different examples. First is an example of a more traditional product that is delivered virtually and then I’m going to give you an example of a product that is delivered live and in person because this works for a lot of different industries. The experience of the Product Master Class that we are about to release to the market, what happens is as soon as someone says, “Yes, I’m in, I want to do that!”, they hit “sign up now, register for this class.” Right away they are redirected to their confirmation page, they aren’t told to go to their inbox yet. In the confirmation page they have a welcome video that’s fun and surprising because it reinforces many of the other principles of Experience Products, having a really defined mission and create a picture of someone’s future self. It helps motivate people and helps them understand what they are exactly there to do. As soon as the welcome message is over and people are told what to expect, because they need to have the big picture context of what they are doing and they go right then and there into their first training on that confirmation page.

They achieve their win from setting their revenue goals, which is what they want to earn for their particular product. Then there is a link right below the video to sign up on a calendar for a very experienced coach to develop their own experience, product, schedule – their customized schedule, and launch plan. Right away, they have chosen their revenue goals and they’ve scheduled their call with their coach. They haven’t had to go to their inbox, they haven’t had to go to a membership site to do it. That’s just the very first experience that they have. They are getting into action and I’ve removed a lot of the information that often times people spend an entire module and training just to set context, that they probably have already gotten. They got what they needed in the marketing, which is why they said “yes.” That is an example of how I am doing that differently with Experience Products.

Throughout the course instead of loading people up with these hour long, two hour long trainings that happen once a week – which that is the old school way. I’m breaking them up into much smaller trainings. Studies show that 50 minutes is the longest amount of time that an adult can keep their attention. If you are doing training for an hour, hour and a half, two hours, you are losing your audience. The vast majority of our trainings are super short, like 10 minutes. Some of them are 5 minutes, some are 20. No training will be longer than 50 minutes. I do more trainings but shorter ones. Every training is only oriented around a single result or a single action for them to take. There is a lot more embedded in that, which makes it really exciting and experiential for people. Those are just a handful of things I’m doing.

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

Experience products play on the brains reward center instead of punishment center by creating a series of constant wins.

So first you are getting them into action on your page, there’s not a lot of things for them to read before they begin so they are already thinking, “Oh my God, I can do this. I’m doing it! Not only that, but I am doing it! I’m doing it already!” The other point is that it is overwhelming for training to be an hour or more. I was just doing a telesummit with someone and they polled their people, and they did 20-minute calls for the telesummit only, where usually it’s an hour – and this is going to be an hour! Maybe we should make it shorter? Let’s go for 50 minutes because I’ve been kind of talking about doing an hour, but we don’t want to lose you in the last 10 minutes. Then the other thing is, you are breaking things down super short, so people can have – it’s like micro-lessons where they are only learning one thing, but they are learning it really thoroughly and they are learning it quickly in those ten minutes.

Beyond learning, it’s the difference between having your learning cap on, where you are passively receiving information and going into action mode, doing mode, implementation mode. For most people, the learning is what stops the process of getting what they want. You see so many people in the training world that do course after course without getting any results and implementing. They mistake learning from doing. It is fundamentally shifting the paradigm from information to experience, from passively receiving knowledge into doing, implementing, getting the result, getting feedback, making progress, and getting what you want. I have done programs where the customer results have an 83% engagement rate. On the last program that I designed in this way, which means 83% of the people came on the line every day for five days. I was teaching three hours a day, five days straight, and we had 83% of the people come on the line. 50% of them upgraded to the next program as well. The rates we are seeing from engagement and resells, all of that are just phenomenal to compare to the old model when you do it this way.

What would keep those people on the call for three hours?

Those are my first experiment with these Experience Products. When I did this last year, I was experimenting with it. There are a lot of ways to interact with and let people engage on the line. I was able to hold people for three hours, but next time around I’m doing much much shorter calls. There’s a lot of ways to do it where you are not just doing audio visual where they are listening, but they are participating, giving feedback, talking, and doing exercises. You can hold people longer if you break up the content. They are engaging with it on a regular basis.

I know it’s new, but it sounds like it’s old in a way. When I used to give live workshops, they were all experiential, they were all doing. I don’t like to get up and talk for an hour at a time, I really like for things to be interactive, so I would set up every workshop to be immediately interactive. So there wasn’t that much talking, there were people doing things together, people doing things alone, there was writing, there was talking, there was movement. So, is Experience Products using these same kinds of principles but on an online way to communicate with people when you are not there in person with them?

Well there are ten core principles of Experience Products. So for sure, it is about making things interactive but it goes beyond making things interactive. There are ways to make multisensory experiences, there are ways to leverage stories, there are ways to engage people emotionally. So yes, and there’s more, there’s a whole other level beyond just creating an interaction with people. That is the first step, but it goes far beyond that in terms of helping them work with their own psychology and  being able to believe that they can do it as well. What’s really interesting is the number one reason why people don’t say yes to a product or fall out, and get struck, or walk away, or refund is that they don’t believe they can do it.

Even if you set something up and it’s about interaction and engagement, if they don’t believe they can do it, they are still going to get stuck and fall out. There are deeper levels of how to create that psychology of belief and set them up and do smaller wins. It helps them gain unstoppable momentum. It is one of the first principles of Experience Products. When you create unstoppable momentum where people feel they have gained enough momentum and that they can keep going, you actually can gradually work them into bigger things that they wouldn’t have thought possible when they started.

That’s so interesting to me, the brain’s natural reward system is wired to win. The action is working with the natural neurology. Can you give me an example of that – without giving away your whole training program, I know we’ve got your training program coming up and you can find that here. I know that Marisa has a lot and more all in her free video training program and PDF downloads, not all of it, but a nice taste of Experience Products is in there.

So when you say an example of working in your reward center, do you mean what is an example of a win?

Yes, what would be an example of win that is not necessarily dependent on interaction?

The example I just gave you about when someone signs up about the Experience Products Master Class, the very first thing they do is to set their revenue goals. They are already imagining the product that they are creating, they are already figuring out their minimum goal, target goal, their stretch goal, this is what it can look like. From there, they are able to reverse engineer their success, so they have already done something You can say if this is your very first time out of the gate, “I can make $5,000.” Anyone can do that if they have set a goal for themselves, it’s a very simple thing, it’s a very simple process to go through to set a revenue goal. That is an example of something that anybody can do. They are already saying that they have done something and taken that first step. You are creating momentum.

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

With Experience Products you are creating manageable goals for customers to reach right there on the sign up page.

So another example, because I said I’d give you two, one from the world of in-person and one from the world of online. One of my students she was selling this retreat. She originally called it the Redwood Retreat. I helped her rebrand that actually to: Write Your Book in Paradise. When she first launched the retreat, only one person signed up at $3,000. What she realized is that most people felt the reason why they weren’t saying yes to the retreat is that they don’t know what their book was about. They didn’t want to go on a retreat and not know what it was they were going to be writing about.


What she realized is that was what was holding them back. If they didn’t know what their book was going to be and they were going to go to this multi-day retreat to write their book, and what if they didn’t come up with the right topic? That was overwhelming and intimidating to them, so they weren’t saying yes to her retreat. After doing these conversations with people she realized that was the issue. So she added one more thing to her offer which was as soon as they sign up she would do a private one-on- one outlining session with them to help them create the entire outline for their book so a big part of their process was done before they even got in the room and they knew what they were going to be writing about.

The very next retreat, she went from making $3,000 at the first retreat to almost $20,000 at the second retreat. Now she’s on track to do her third retreat and it’s about to sell out. Each one since her first retreat, she has been making more money because she has realized what was getting in the way of making people say yes. It is a simple experience that she was able to add, but of course it goes deeper than that. Sometimes it is hard to understand what’s getting in the way of people saying yes and finding that core objection, what is core issue they have that is stopping them from moving forward either before they say yes or after they say yes and are actually in the program.

Yeah, and you were talking about that too, that people say one of their biggest barriers is they don’t think they can do it. So, one of your principles in Experience Products is about showing people how they can do it and make that mindset shift.

Yes, absolutely. One of the principles is related to normalizing challenges too. A lot of times what happens is, our marketing is all targeted at making things sound super easy and quick. When people get in, they realize it’s not super easy and quick. But you have just set it up to be super easy and quick in the marketing to sell them which might give you short term rewards. Then they get in and think, “Well this is actually a lot harder than I thought. What’s wrong with me?”

One of the principles is about normalizing challenges. Instead of saying everything is easy and quick, you say that, “Well these are the stumbling blocks that people have, it is normal and natural for these to happen. When you do have these stumbling blocks, here’s what you do…”

I like that and it’s very intriguing. How is this connecting with brain science? What happens in the neurology or whatever that keeps people up chemically connected to you?

It is not about being chemically connected to us necessarily. We go through a lot of the emotional side; engaging the multi-sensory to create a much more vivid experience for them. That is going to have a higher level of engagement when storytelling or other strategies to use will keep them more connected to you. The neurology part comes around from the idea of when people feel they are making this constant progress and winning along the way, that is what it is releasing the positive flood of emotions. The other engagement tools of being able to engage more of them, not just their brain or logic, because people don’t make choices to change their life and take action by logic alone.

Most of the time they make it by emotion, right?

So many of these products are training people’s brains, information in and of itself does not engage people in a more holistic fashion.

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

Marisa’s philosophy behind Experience Products.

I was curious about what you were saying at the beginning, going back to Pokemon Go and taking some of those experiences and taking some lessons from Pokemon Go. What kinds of things are you taking from that, how successful Pokemon Go has been to create that viral experience that people want to share? That’s really the ultimate success is that people do it and then they want to share it.

The psychology of winning is a really important one that we are taking from the world of games, which is what we have been talking about on creating this positive experience escalation. It is about the positive experience that people get from winning. In games, each level increases in complexity by 25% in how challenging it is. From one level to the next, how can you challenge people to grow but not overwhelm them so they don’t think they can’t do it? Striking that balance for people is really important and it’s what keeps people hooked; where they are winning and it’s getting harder, but they still feel like they can win.

They are growing and experiencing that growth as they play the game. That is one big piece of psychology and one thing that the Pokemon Go does as well as it leverages the power of community. You are not there alone playing the game. You know that everyone is playing the game as well and a lot of times you are running into and bumping into them playing the game as well. It is not necessarily what many video games in the past have done in isolation, Pokemon Go is mapping a virtual reality onto the real world. It encourages people to meet each other more. There are so many ways to build community into online programs as well and to do something similar in that way.

Eight of the ten principles in Experience Products don’t rely on technology at all. They are principles of engagement and the science of how humans work and how they do their best work and become successful and change their lives. Video games happen to do this in a more technological format and you don’t have to go out and create a video game or an app to make this stuff work. It is a matter of dialing in the core strategy and the design of the experience that you are creating, and making it relevant to you, and understanding how to create the path that you are promising in your product or service or coaching package.

This is brand new by the way and it’s not even out yet, but it will be by the time you hear to this. To get more of Marisa’s great information you can go here. There you will get a free video training series and also a workbook (downloadable PDF) – all free, to go along with that, so you’ll start to understand what this is. If that intrigues you, and this is something that you want to do, then Marisa will invite you into her Experience Products course where you will actually get to see how this is done. You can hear that she has done it in beta and it’s been working super well since before they have launched this. You are going to be able to do super well on your own no matter what kind of product or service that you have.

Tell us about the kinds of industries and businesses that these Experience Products are working in. You had mentioned that it also works for services. It is not just products, it’s everything.

It’s brand new, but I’ve actually been working on these concepts for about five years. As a brand strategist, I’ve worked with dozens of different industries and helped them craft experiences into their businesses into their services and products that have already increased the value and engagement on their work and reduce the need for marketing because people are a lot more likely to spread the word when they are getting better results.

What is new is the idea of this fundamentally different kind of product called an Experience Product, I’ve been playing with this for years now, and finally codified it based on the experiments that we’ve been doing in our own business with lots of my customers. I’ve had it work for people in educational therapy, in publishing, in business training, in reiki. People need to take regular action. Even when it comes to accountants and lawyers, and things like that, a lot of times, they can’t get what they need from their customers because they are doing the thud factor of, “Okay I need you to go read this 50 page document and get back to me”

It becomes harder and harder for people to have the brain space to get those kinds of tasks done. We have a web design business. Traditionally, I am waiting for our customers to get us everything that we need, and doing a much better job of breaking it down for people and showing them the entire bird’s eye view of the process, is really easing that moving it forward. I’ve applied it to my agency, my branding agency and the web design clients that we do. When you start to understand how can you engage people in the process to help them get the result they say that they want and make it easier for them.

It also a lot of times makes the process easier for you. I think what a lot of experts and product creators who love what they teach so much don’t realize is that less is more. It is an important lesson to learn. When you try to give people everything, a lot of times what it is, is that it just muddles what they need to be doing – the minimum amount of information they need to get to the result. As our world gets busier, as information starts to explode as people are more distracted and multitasking more and more. It is important to get down to that most fundamental level of what is it they are doing for people, and how you can help them there in as few steps as possible, and how you can make it as easy as possible for them to get the results. That they realize they are getting the result each step of the way and to create a game that they can win.

I like what you said about it’s the minimum amount of information to get the result. Obviously as a media trainer it’s what I love in terms of language, it’s saying the minimum amount in order to get the result, which is a sound bite. Getting your messages out there clearly and quickly. This is applying it to a whole functionality of a way of getting a result. I really love that because I think that to really think about what is not necessary is hard. You know the old joke, I think it was Proust who wrote this, “I would have written you a shorter letter had I had the time.”

Yes, totally.

This is the same sort of thing, that this takes a lot of thought and really understanding how little you can give people – which that is generous. That is the generous thing to give them as little as possible to get them the result they want. I love that idea. By they way, check out the Resources at the bottom of the page with more links that can help you with this. You can access Marisa’s videos and PDF workbooks so you can get started on this right away on how you can create a course with the minimum amount of information to get the results for your people, your tribe. It sounds like Experience Products isn’t industry or genre specific, it can work for any type of business and any type of topic.

Yes, absolutely, like I’ve said, I’ve helped people who have services or coaching and consulting as well. A lot of them also need their customers to do things. They have been creating tasks that are impossible for their customers to do. If it is seems impossible, they are hemming and hawing and dragging their feet, it takes a lot longer than it needs to and they miss deadlines. It is a practice to simplify. I think ultimately it is easy to create this kind of course because is a lot less for you to create, there is more thought that goes into the process upfront. The actual marketing and the delivery becomes a lot simpler. It is a matter of doing the thought upfront to make the marketing and delivery more simple. What most people do is they jump in and create something really fast, and then they spend all of their time on the marketing and delivery later on. It’s where you choose to spend your time and focus.

So if you do the thought upfront, then the delivery and the marketing and the creation of it is much easier.

Yes, absolutely.

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

Check out Marisa’s free videos on Experience Products.

I’d love to hear another example – like why don’t we talk about the other people that you have helped so we get a sense of what actually happens. I love that example of the woman who had the writing retreat and you changed it from Redwood Writing Retreat to Write Your Book in Paradise and then discovered what was holding people back. I think that was really fascinating, I’d love to hear and I think that since so many people are coaches, I’d love to hear and example from the coaching industry.. I think it’s hard for coaches to distinguish themselves from one each other and to create a course that doesn’t sound like everybody else and to create the life of your dreams – that doesn’t appeal to anyone.

Yes, I am working with someone who is coaching people with learning disabilities. They do it one by one for twenty years. Because it was so challenging and time-consuming, his profit margin was 10%. 10% profit margin in coaching people one-on-one, both kids and adults, with someone who has severe learning disabilities for the last twenty years. He wanted to do a group program but was really convinced that each student was essentially so unique because they did brain testing and identified out of the 29 different brain functions where each person is and which ones are compromised and which ones are underdeveloped and which ones are not. He played with the idea of a group offering for years and years, and after five years, he had given up on it. He didn’t want to compromise the results and the experiences they were getting from his one on one sessions. This is Matthew Turton at Breakthroughs in Learning.

I sat down with him and asked questions. We were able to figure out how to create different groups based on different learning abilities. The timeline to help someone develop that part of the brain that is underdeveloped is two about years for them to really see the clear and tangible results. So you can imagine how hard it is to keep engagement over a two-year process where sometimes you don’t see results can be incredibly challenging. How do you build this journey with clear milestones and the sense of feeling the progress for people who are going to take two years to get up to an average capacity in a particular area of their brain?

I helped to sketch out this two-year program. He has two groups now in different focal areas. It is a huge success. A lot of people who couldn’t previously afford to work with him one on one are now able to afford group sessions. Now, his profit margin went from 10% to 40% in a single year because the groups are so much profitable than the one-on-one training was and he still has been able to provide this incredible experience to people. He has got students who are spending $100 a week for two years to go through this program with him.

Because they are able to increase their profits by 40%, his is able to give his entire staff of coaches a 25% raise. This is a brick and mortar industry with a high overhead that he had been doing the same business model for twenty years. We figured out how to create a brand new experience in that industry that hasn’t really been done before. We are creating and integrating these ten principles of Experience Products to make these students feel like they are gaining momentum in a field where they could feel that they are not and that they are stuck for a long time.

I think that is a pretty common problem with any kind of coach, or therapist, or dance teacher because it is someone who is having been used to a one on one experience. How do you translate that one-on-one to a group experience without losing the quality, consistency, and the feel of you giving that one on one kind of attention? It sounds like this Experience Products gives that same feeling without having to be there, you, 100% of the time one on one with people, is that right?

It is a similar feeling, but it has got a slightly different flavor of that feeling. I believe that doing Experience Products gives you a more powerful experience one to many than the one on one. You are leveraging the power of community into the other experiences that are incredibly powerful for human being, we are tribe-based animals. You have all of a sudden 500 work out buddies, who make sure you get fit. There are higher chances of success than one on one in that context. I believe that using Experience Products in many cases gives you a more powerful one to many experience than you could have in the one-on-one.

In Matthew’s case with people with learning disabilities, he was able to make this available to people that they were having to send away and were left behind by the school system who had no other places to go. They couldn’t afford the work. Matthews company, they were doing it in the 10% profit margin, trying to make it as affordable as possible. They still couldn’t afford the work. Now, there is a new place for people to go and benefit and have the advantage of the experience of community. They realize they are not alone and everything that community can bring when you do it right.

I think that is super important, because I think that some communities – to make a community work and to make it really have people uplifting each other and one of my friends is in a grief community for people who are divorced. She lost her fiancé, and she said the support has absolutely been amazing in there because people are actually experiencing it together. They really have pulled together and are encouraging each other and she can see all the other people that have had a very similar experience even if they are not feeling the exact same thing.

I know that to be true too when I media trained a group of stock analysts via Skype, where some are in the same room, and some are in other parts of the world, and how fast they could learn from each other. I didn’t have to say the same thing to each person because they had already incorporated it by the time it was their chance to be in the spotlight and work with me directly because they were all watching the media training experience and so they picked it up super quick.

Not to mention that there are different kinds of learners. There’s the kind of person who doesn’t like to be put on the spot and be the first person to raise their hand, even if they are working with you one-on- one. I’m sure as a coach or consultant, you’ve had the kind of person who needs to think about first, it’s this  slow burn. And now, for that kind of person, they are getting the opportunity to see someone else go through it. It is adding fuel to their learning. It allows for different kinds of people to experience in different kinds of ways as well.

I totally agree with that, because I am a slow processor. When I was getting media training, and getting trained on presentation training, my partner told me to do something and I couldn’t immediately put it into action. He was looking at me like, “What is your friggin’ problem? The trainer just told you do this and you’ve got to revise on the spot.” I just needed more time to process it and before I could put it into action. You’re right, there are different kinds of learners.

I want to ask you a question and you do not have to answer it, because I know that this is going to be in your upcoming video and training series on Experience Products, so if you want to keep it a secret you can. I was wondering  if we could go through what are the ten principles? If that’s all in your video, I don’t want to spoil it.

It’s all in the video and the thing is, just knowing the principles is not enough. You need to understand the applications and examples of the principles. What I don’t want to do is like, “Oh here are the principles, I’ve got it and I’m going to try and do this on my own.” It is a really different thing to understand the core principles and to see them in practice and understand how to leverage them. For Steph in her Write Your Book in Paradise Retreat, knowing exactly what experience to create is the biggest challenge. You don’t necessarily know. I am concerned that the people will have just information in making them dangerous but not enough information to get the result.

Fair enough totally understand that, I love the example of the people with learning disabilities, maybe you can share one more example from a different industry to see how Experience Products works? I think it’s really helpful for people to hear those stories, you’ve explained some of the really fascinating aspects of it and that part of it is that you do need to understand all those ten principles in order to create your own course or own experience or service in this way that is going to be very effective and it’s going to be very personal. It’s going to strip away everything that is non-essential and just give people exactly what they need to get the result.

I was talking to one of my students, Julie Lowe, who already had a six figure Facebook product that is embedded in other people’s programs. We crafted a new idea for a product for her called Facebook ATM (Facebook Ads To Money); she had just stalled out for four months in creating the product because it felt boring, dry, and dull to her. She informed me that she wasn’t going to do it anymore and just go back to doing one-on-one work. I started to ask her questions since this doesn’t make any sense considering that she has a successful six-figure product already, why not make another one?

I helped her zoom into what her core motivations were as an entrepreneur. She loved to help people and she loved that interaction. She was having no interaction on the product creation process side so it was hard for her to stay motivated. A lot of the information that she felt obliged to include, she was having all of the stuff in the product that she had no interest in recording it because it bored her. I was like, “Yeah and that’s going to bore your audience too. Get rid of it” We identified and looked through the entire program and cut a lot of it. I told her to start here, Let’s get your people a result right away. They aren’t going to want those two hours of context before they get to work and doing this. They want just the right amount of information.

In half an hour, I helped her completely re-structure this program. She felt so relieved that she felt so much better about what she is doing. That got her excited again, and it moved her launching up by three months. She felt like she could go ahead and create it. This is what I call rapid agile product creation methodology. It gets your product to the market faster and you teach it in collaboration with your audience the first time around and get their input and their feedback.

So many people spend lots of time trying to craft everything before they begin. They miss the benefit of getting the input from their customers as they are creating it. One of the reasons why people want to do everything ahead of time is that they feel a need to have all the answers and know everything before it starts. It’s that need to have that crystal clarity and to know and they end up putting a lot of effort in to creating everything ahead of time. Once I started experimenting with this process that I talk about of really marketing it and selling it before delivering it, at first they are scared but once they start doing it they are like, “Oh my gosh, this is so much easier.” They realize that they can respond to people and see what kinds of questions that come up and things that aren’t clear, things they might have over looked because they think that it wasn’t relevant to people.

I teach really simple ways to market and deliver the products a lot faster, It’s not just the idea of a strategy behind the product. It simplifies things. When you get people going and you get them the results faster than they thought possible, and a bigger result than they thought possible, they spread the word for you. In my last event, I had one of my customers bring 27 people to my live event. I had another person who brought 10 people to my live event. They were so excited from our work together, that they want to bring all their friends to my work. What happens when you change the dynamic is that right now, so many online entrepreneurs are spending all their time marketing. They are like, “Market, market, market. And market, market, market.” They are like politicians in spending the time to be re-elected and they don’t have time to serve govern anymore.

When you shift your focus to creating experiences that I’ve designed to get people the results that they want, then often times they do the marketing for you. Its intentional designing in viral loops within the feedback loops in the products. That encourages the cycle of talking about what you do more and more. If each customer brings 1.3 people to your business, you completely eliminate the need to market it, and still are having at least 20% growth every single year.

My goal for Experience Products is to end marketing, which is a completely radical thought. You can add marketing if each customer will bring 1.3 customers in while still growing your business. That is the magic ratio.

I think that is amazing – end marketing? I’m in! I’m serious. How many people can say they love marketing? If you can put the end to marketing and have people do it because they love it and because they are getting the results they wanted, I think that is really amazing.

Pokemon Go exploded in a month, from $0 to $2,000,000 because people wanted to share it with each other. I’ve seen it in my own products that people get excited with the results that they are getting that they share it with the people and bring them to my work. Steph, with the writing retreats, half the slots are filled by referral. She’s only done two of them before, and the first one only had one person at it. When you do it like this, it creates incredible loyalty and excitement in your customers. What happens is customers start buying other products as well from you.

The first time that I did experiments with these principles, the numbers were off the charts compared to the industry’s standards. In three months, I did $137,884 in revenue from basically 108 people who took our entry products for $497. It ended up in $137,000 in sales. It started out as a webinar that people 990 opted into. Every opt-in generated $139 each sale. The first product generated $1,227. It is one of those things where you are not only increasing people’s desire to refer new people to you, and potentially ending the need for you to market it if you understand how to craft experiences where they are getting results, and getting excited, and you are  creating the feedback loops.

You are increasing the number of people who become repeat buyers. The industry standard is 10-20% of people who become repeat buyers. I have as much as 50% of people move on to the next offer. It transforms everything when you do this and they are also bringing new people to you as well. It’s a way for you to go back to what you love about your business, instead of focusing all your time on marketing because you are selling stuff that’s not getting people results. It’s not that you mean to, nobody intends to not get people results, it’s the model that we’ve all been taught and that we’ve all be using that’s somehow gotten less and less effective. It’s one of those things where you are like, “How did we get here?” You just don’t realize it, and you’ve just been doing things the way that people have told you do to things and that’s not actually working.

By fundamentally shifting the model, turning it on it’s head, and creating a brand new model like what we’ve done here. Because information products really are dead, and Experience Products are replacing them. It’s like you get to buy stock in Netflix on day one. You get to be part of the future of where this industry is going and go back to what you love about your business, which is delivering value in serving people. You spend less time marketing and more time in giving people results by designing your products, services, and coaching specifically for that. It is terrifically exciting because the results that I have seen through my preliminary tests are off the charts compared to the industry standards. The results that I’ve been able to get some of my clients by making some of these shifts, and when they make all of these shifts, it’s like, “Holy smokes!”

When it’s possible for them and they feel so much more excited about their business because they want their business to feel good for people, then all of a sudden when customers don’t get results and don’t do the work, it doesn’t feel good. When you spend all the time marketing, that doesn’t feel good either. So you can start to feel good again.

That was beautifully put, I just want to say. People want to get back to serving and working with people and having experiences that feel really good, like you are making a mark in the world, or even if it’s not in the world you are helping your clients and customers in some way and you are helping them get those results. I think that is pretty much everybody’s deepest intention, and then they get caught up in the neediness of needing to sell it which perverts the original intention. It is like getting back to how you are helping your clients or customers get the results, which then is also a blessing to you because they sell the product for you or refer people to you and they love you and they buy more products.

So it’s like the end of marketing . imagine if you didn’t have to do any marketing! How amazing that would be if that people are doing the marketing for you because you have helped them so much, which I think it really wonderful. It’s like the best kind of viralocity because it’s not viralocity of a silly picture – even though I love silly cat pictures – but it’s not just viralocity of something that is going to give you some eye candy for the moment. It is really giving something that is very deeply nourishing for whatever it is that you are giving people what they want. It is a kind of viralocity that is really going to help people get results in that.

You said something also in this riff that I want to talk and touch on just briefly, because we are already past the 50-minute mark, but we are going to wrap up soon! I love that idea, I’m going to make it a goal of mine to be 50 minutes, but I can’t let this one go – intentionally designed viral loops. Can you speak a moment to what those are and how they work?

One really good example of viral loops is 99 Designs. It’s where you go, after you create a logo for a design contest, and all these different designers submit their logos and you invite all the people you know to go rate which of the logos is best logo.

What happens is that you get feedback from the people on your logo, but 99 Designs gets all this free publicity. “Oh my gosh, what is this awesome site, these logos look great. I need a logo. Let me go do my logo there.” But how do you build in interaction, not just in the people in the community doing it but outside of it and strategically so more people get involved in the process and get to be part of the experience? It informs people about what your customers are doing in interesting ways.

Okay great. Well, I think that is a great place to end. Unless there is something I haven’t asked you that you wanted me to ask?

No, I would just so to go check out the videos and the workbooks, there is a whole video on the end of marketing idea as well here. You can check it out and see for yourself what this can look like as well as the interesting thing that I did with my videos is I did my best to make them an experience.

I can’t wait to see them. Thank you so much, Marisa. This is super exciting for all of us, particularly on both sides; whether you are the kind of person who wants to take a course and get through it in such a way to get results, or you want to create a course in such a way to give your tribe real results. There is so much learning on both sides. Experiencing your whole course and then also actually doing it for others, I think it’s a great learning experience on both sides.

Thank you so much for coming here today in the middle of your launch. I so appreciate you, and I can’t wait to take your course.

You are welcome, thank you so much for hosting me. It was super fun. I can’t wait for you all to check all of the videos and use Experience Marketing too – which I haven’t even talked about

That’ll have to be another podcast!

BAMD0009 | Experience Products

About Marisa Murgatroyd 

Marisa is the founder of Live Your Message, where she turns entrepreneurs into Online Superheroes. At 4’11 and a quarter, she’s called the shortest woman in marketing — and that doesn’t stop her from having huge ideas. She’s the “go to” brand builder for industry luminaries and heavyweights such as Justin Livingston, Callan Rush, Danny Iny, Sage Lavine, Alexis Neely and Susan Peirce Thompson. You’re invited to get a free video training series + workbooks here.


Start creating products + programs that go viral naturally— that your participants LOVE. (Free PDFs + Videos!)

Can't Figure Out Publicity?

How Do I Get Publicity?

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You’re welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

[pojo-sidebar id=”626″] 


Like what you read? Share it!


Hi, I'm Susan

I’m a media coach, martial artist + marketing strategist who helps you communicate your values, mission + message during media interviews to multiply your revenue while building your brand + business. I believe that you don’t need to brag, beg or whore yourself to get the publicity you want. Nor do you need to be an axe murderer, a shamed sports star, or be involved in a sex scandal. There is another way…

Subscribe to the Podcast

Get your FREE publicity gifts

The 15 best places for products, services, causes and books.

Own Your Worth

5 Ways to Say No Without Guilt, Shame or Blame. 

Recent Podcasts


Liked this episode? Get more like this every week by signing up: