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How to Use Storytelling For Leadership and PR With Dave Ursillo


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How to Use Storytelling For Leadership and PR With Dave Ursillo

Welcome everyone. Our topic today is how to use storytelling for leadership and PR. Our guest is Dave Ursillo. He's a teacher of writing, creativity, yoga and all things self-expression. He's a former politico who once walked in the west wing of the White House and aspired to become a presidential speech writer, which is so fascinating. We were just talking about how to frame questions properly that you learned from being in politics. Then in 2009, disillusioned with the state of politics and questioning his role in the system, Dave quit his job and abandoned his career in public service to live a life of personal leadership, using writing as his vessel for change. That's so beautifully written too, Dave.

Thank you.

I'm obviously reading your bio. It's a story in itself, right?

Absolutely.

Your bio is even your very first story. We'll talk about that in a minute. When Dave is not writing, he loves to travel abroad. He's been to India twice. He considers coffee an act of artistry. Oh my God, we didn't talk about Bulletproof Coffee, which we'll have to do, which I've had my first cup this morning.

There you go.

He wants to help humans love one another. Find Dave and his 400, Dave, wow, published pieces of writing at DaveUrsillo.com. Gosh Dave, I forgot to ask you one of the cardinal rules. Did I pronounce your name right?

You did. You pronounced it phenomenally. It roughly translates to mean small bear.

But you're a big bear, aren't you? Because you look like you're like 6'8" or something.

I wish. I'm like only 5'9 1/2".

Really?

I'm trying to stretch out that 5'9 1/2" to 5'10".

Oh my God, I thought you were like a giant, honestly. I thought you were at least 6'5" from all your pictures. That must be just …

The beauty of working online is that you can feign extreme height and size and Tony Robbins' stature. No, I'm just a humble 5'10"-ish. I can throw down. I don't do much throwing down but I can throw it down if I need to. At least, I'd like to think so.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Dave Ursillo shares how to use storytelling for leadership and PR.

Good for you. I just want to say to our listeners too, one of the things, if you have a difficult name or anything to pronounce, tell the person ahead of time if they don't ask. I forgot to ask. I usually ask. I assumed I knew how to say it. But then as I was saying it, I'm like, oh my God, I'm hoping that I'm saying it right. If I didn't, that you as the listener should correct me in an instant because there's no shame in that.

Absolutely. You nailed it. I'm glad I didn't have to correct you. I do the same thing too. This is another little tip for listeners, because I do some interviewing myself with different people. Without a fail, if I do butcher something or have to ask them again to pronounce their name correctly, my go to little self-deprecating humor is that with a name like Ursillo, you'd expect me to be better at pronouncing everybody else's name because I would hope that they pronounce it better myself. It breaks the ice when I have that faux pas myself and butcher a name. It does happen.

That's great. We're talking about storytelling for leadership and PR. Storytelling is so hot right now. It's always been hot because it's the way that we pass on tradition from one to another. Oral storytelling. It's had a comeback. I see now, everybody's a storytelling coach. You've been one for quite a while. You've told me that how somebody tells her story or tells his story is someone's first and perhaps best source of PR. I'm curious as to how and also how did you use story to get where you are today?

Absolutely, Susan. It's a great question. Thank you for asking it. It's so true. You've led in by saying that everybody's kind of a storytelling coach nowadays. It's making a big comeback. What I really like to make clear, and I tell this to myself all the time, is I don't, deep in my heart, consider myself to be a storyteller. I consider myself to be a writer and someone who naturally, years ago, gravitated to the art form of story to not only change my life but quite literally save it from ...

You mentioned in my back story, being disillusioned with politics and public service. I was also quite depressed at the time, at this point in my life when I was really, a total crisis of identity. I was young at the time but I was living in this phase of everything that I expected the world to be and my career to be and my life to be was exactly the opposite of what I had hoped. As a result, going through a breakup at the time, nothing was going right.

Somehow, tragically, nothing was wrong. I had a job. This was in 2009, just following the housing crisis and credit crisis. The world was in pretty rough shape economically. I had a job and I had possibilities. I was in a position of privilege and dreading that my life wasn't as good as I had hoped. The crisis was more of the spiritual one. This is where the storytelling came into play, where I knew that, deep in my heart, I was not living the story that I wanted to be telling.

Sometimes that phrase can seem like, the life is meant to be told or witnessed in a shallow sense. Truly, it was more that my soul was so craving purpose and depth and experience that was not being experienced as it was in my life. I decided to leave my job relying upon that the tool that I felt so close to, which was writing, as my own personal means of not only knowing myself but sharing myself.

I believe that writing could be my tool for giving to the world in ways that could make an impact starting today, whereas the world that I was living in, the world that I was leaving in politics and public service, which you could relate to really any industry on a corporate level or just something that doesn't completely jive your heart and soul.

That world was telling me that I needed to wait to make a difference, which was ironic because it's public service. It's supposed to be serving the public and helping people. But I was told that I needed to wait to earn my keep. I was told that I needed to do more to deserve to help people. In my heart, I said, "I'm not going to save the world all on my own but I can't help but feel like I could help one person today." If that's with a blog post then I was intent on doing that.

I left my job, my career and I started to ... Before I really knew it Susan, I was sharing my story because it just seemed so natural for me to be telling other people who may be in the position similar to me that there was hope and that there was a chance and that there was choice.

The circumstances that, whether there was a job that they didn't find fulfilling or there was other circumstances of hardship, like depression or disillusionment, or whatever the circumstances were almost didn't matter. If there was a sense or a source of suffering within that person, I wanted them to know that there's a possibility for change.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Blogging can be an outlet of storytelling for leadership and PR.

On the merit of telling my story and exposing myself and my own beliefs and also my struggles, before I really knew it, I was becoming a storyteller and I was using my story to start to cultivate the life that I wanted to live. In turn, helping others change the story of their lives.

These years later, now over seven years later, I find myself doing what we would call business storytelling work or professional storytelling work. Sometimes people use the term storytelling to mean that they get on stage and they have rehearsed different various stories that they performed.

For me, I get very intimate into the voice and the values that somebody lives by. I help them express where they've been, but more importantly, where they're going or where they wish to go and what they wish to create with others hand in hand to co-create a future that is brighter and healthier and more unified and loving. That's the storytelling that I do now.

Almost by accident Susan, I started to become a storyteller just out of pure necessity. That's the essence that I really want to give to people, is that storytelling isn't necessarily an art form that ought to be mastered before you start telling yours. Story is the most human fundamental art form that has ever existed. It's psychological too.

We tell stories just to make sense of the world, to explain how we began this phone call or the commute into work this morning or how to make the perfect cup of coffee. It's all story because story is just context, it's relevance, it's creating some meaning, it's assigning relevance to otherwise random facts and details.

We're all telling stories all the time. We're telling stories in our head and out loud. When you start to at least just understand how many stories we live and share and experience in marketing and PR and advertising and so on, then I believe it really starts to open your world to the possibility that exists to re-story yourself or to story yourself all over again in the ways that you desire. It's something just as simple as using your words can help you open the door and walk through it.

I think you said you weren't living the story you wanted to live. By using your voice and values and what you want to create for yourself and others, you can change the direction of your life.

Absolutely.

You also were saying that you can re-story yourself by telling the new future, the stories. Is that what you're saying too? You can say, "Okay, this was the story that I was," like you were in the west wing of the White House and that was not serving you. Now, you're going to tell a new story and then tell the story first and then live into it?

Absolutely. It's two fold, Susan. Exactly right. If you look at yourself in the present moment, you can take a journal, take some paper or just sit in thought and meditation and reflect on what are the stories that I'm living right now? What are the stories, when I wake up, I hear in my head? Is it a story of anxiety, of nervousness? If I have to do more, I have to rush, I have to do this XYZ. Is it a story that I'm living my purpose? Is it a story that I'm fractured and I'm un-whole, that I don't feel like I'm living my authentic truth?

These are the things, the narratives, the quiet narratives that we hear in our head. The ego, the narration that we always hear and that affects our physical bodies, that affects the direction, the quality of the decisions that we make, the quality of our relationships. Here and now, in the present moment, you can start to look at the stories that are dictating your reality.

That's what I was doing over seven and a half years ago when I said ... I kind of had this out of body experience, this awakening moment when I realized that I didn't want to keep living the story of, "I'm depressed." I was that thing but I also didn't want to continue to live the story of, "I am depressed and I hate my job and I have to wait five years to start to make a difference."

That was the impetus for me. Quitting my job was small in comparison to the decision to start to change the story. Quitting my job was a facet of how I physically adjusted my life to change the story that I would be living in the future. From that point, when I found the space and the freedom, having quit my job. Not everybody needs to, but whenever you cultivate the physical circumstances to help you create the space, it's almost like you're opening a new journal page and you're saying, "How do I want to fill this space now?"

To me, through a process of deep and long reflections over months and months of just writing for myself and for no one in particular, I started to realize all these pieces that I had been living throughout my life which were, "I'm here to make a difference in some way. I'm here to lead with or without followers. That I don't need politics and public service to validate a calling of leadership within me," but just by writing, starting a blog, starting to publish some of those 400 essays and blog posts.

That's a lot.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

By blogging over 400 essays, Dave found how to use storytelling for leadership and PR.

I can start to make a small difference. The co-creative power is once you've made peace with the past, you're starting to adjust the things that have led you to where you are here now today, then you have the freedom, the choice, the creative ability to say, "How do I want to live and what do I want to bring other people into relationship with me and what does that look like, what does it feel like?"

That's what we all do all the time. When we're doing the work that we do, whether it's purely independently as a self-employed creative or an entrepreneur or a coach or if it's being a part of a bigger entity. We're still considering what is our relationship to the future that we're creating.

Story, just literally writing it out or talking it out, is a way where it starts to become less ephemeral and intangible and starts to feel more real. I believe in the power of that. Just by putting words onto paper, something truly magical begins to happen. For me, it's like the universe starts to birth this reality along with you when you start to take action to make it real in your life.

I love the phrase, "Change your writing, change your life." That's a book, right?

Yeah.

When I train people, media train, typically we do it orally and I write it down because they don't necessarily ... It's such a different process, writing down a story than it is speaking a story. It's using a different part of the brain. Both are completely valid. Is your process on storytelling for leadership and PR when you say ... I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about this. The first one, is the process for you and how you teach, to write the story first? Because you're so prolific in that regard.

It's a great question. I actually have used it with my storytelling for leadership clients. My story clients I work with both in partnership with a storytelling company and on my own. Just so you have some background, you mentioned the kind of people I work with, conscientious creatives but very driven professionals, very high achieving professionals who are on the cutting edge of innovation and doing something very new and different that doesn't have a name.

Also, coaches who are living their leadership. They've been in a certain place in their life and now they're trying to take where they've been and share that with others to help those in a similar position. I actually have used both sides of the approach Susan, where sometimes I'll prompt people into writing their story first as a benchmark.

Sometimes we start with just a purely oral conversation. Lately, it's been the oral conversation is what starts and then we complement the oral exploration with writing and writing to finesse things out. There's quite literally a back and forth between spoken and written. We have this dual approach to get the story just right.

Ultimately, when we're working online and we're dealing with different bios, we're mostly dealing with ... Although the Internet more and more has different mediums of experiencing, from audio to video. I always find that written is the passive evergreen source of developing relationships with people.

The about me page, for example. It's great to have some audio or video on there. To me, the written word is such an intimate form of experiencing one's soul and it's so chosen, which is why I really fell in love with written word. I don't want to get too far off from your question here.

But to consider, just for a moment as you listen, you the listener, the difference of being spoken at in video or audio form or even just by someone in person, versus the medium of willfully choosing to engage and entertain the ideas in written form on a piece of paper.

The reason that I first gravitated to writing when I was younger, I was in junior high and high school, was that I always felt, as a natural introvert, I felt very almost repressed when somebody spoke at me in a way that I couldn't choose to avoid. Conversely, written word was a purely invitational form of dialogue. I felt expansive when I wrote and when I read. When I was with random authority issues that I had as a kid and still to this day ...

We can talk about that.

Being spoken at or commanded or told to do something or respond to something, I really disengaged from it. That's why I had this admitted bias towards written word. To answer your question, I really believe that in conversation, you can stumble upon things because you're in a relationship to the story in this collaborative, constructive way with one another.

In writing, that's more of an intimate form. It's more you enable someone, you empower somebody to fall into their story in a way that's like a communion with self and with spirit and with source energy. There's two beautiful ways of getting deeper into the truth of what the story is. I believe that both forms really help you get there.

It's so interesting because you're right, they're so different. I like that you mentioned that it's an invitation. Somebody chooses to read it. It's their choice whether they want to continue or not as they're reading it. They're feeling you through those words on paper, which is completely different sometimes. It shouldn't be, but oftentimes there's a disconnect between someone reading you on paper, in your bio or your about me, and then what they feel or what they get when you're either speaking or on video and making those things a congruent.

Absolutely. I think that there's room for both of them. Nowadays, everything is trending towards video. I don't have any statistics off the top of my head but the world is all going video. Facebook's algorithm rewards you for using video.

Now, there's Facebook live where you're recording videos live. All the mediums that we're using in PR and in marketing nowadays are gearing towards video especially. Podcasting is getting bigger and bigger than ever.

I hope you're not going to knock that since we're on one.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Storytelling for leadership and PR can be accomplished by podcasting.

Absolutely not. In fact, I'm playing with the idea of starting my own. I use video for my different E-courses and for my writers group. I believe in really mixing up the mediums. I love engaging people in different ways. To me, I'll always have that special place writing has in my heart. Like you said, I think the perfect way to put is as these mediums change and become more popular and more effective for attention spans and the ways that trends work, I still believe that there's a very important place for the writing.

Like you said, for it to be congruent with everything else that's being conveyed in audio and video form is very special because it speaks to a certain segment of potential customers and clients who require perhaps maybe a longer term relationship based approach. Building that emotional trust and emotional rapport.

It's like chicken and the egg where am I partial to writing stories for my clients because it's effective in its own way or because my clients tend to be these types of people who all share similar values, which is that it takes a lot of trust and patience and very low pressure form of developing a business relationship?

For example, just this past week, I landed a new member of my online writers group, the Literati Writers, who has been on my waiting list and considering joining for probably sixteen months. I don't gear all of my marketing towards converting someone who's going to be on my waiting list for sixteen months.

But it's an interesting example of even though the world is moving so fast, I think there's still a place for the slow and for the slow to be very effective in cultivating profound change. Ideally, right Susan. Ideally, the work that we do can last a lifetime.

I think people, maybe they're interested in you at that time but they're not ready.

Exactly, you never know.

They need to be cultivated along. Maybe they need to read your 400 pieces before they realize that they too can, before they join your Literati Writers

I don't think we can second guess people's internal process or what happens. Part of the importance of that and the importance of what you're saying is giving them the opportunity to go at their own pace in storytelling for leadership.

Whether it's reading you're writing or writing their own writing and finding their own rhythm for that. Maybe somebody reads one piece of yours and wants join your LiteratiWriters.comAnother one, this guy, this person has sixteen months of doing whatever's that internal process.

I want to let everybody know, you can read some of Dave's 400 published pieces at DaveUrsillo.com and join his LiteratiWriters.com group. The home of his positivity infused online writers group.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Storytelling for leadership and PR involves a change in your mindset.

The other question I wanted to ask you that you mentioned, which I think is so important in terms of storytelling for leadership and PR. I know that the popular term is mindset. What you're calling the stories that are dictating your reality that you have in your head. How do you go about shifting those negative stories that people have in every aspect of their life? Whether it's holding them back from one obstacle or holding them back from a whole career.

For you, you said you were depressed and then you started locating the stories that you were telling yourself to say, "One of my stories is I've got to wait five years to make a difference. But no, I don't think that's true." How do you start to locate those stories that are holding you back and then how do you shift them into a new story?

Fantastic question. For me, this is where the ability to write the stories out and to see them being birthed by your hand into physical form becomes so powerful. For me Susan, when I had quit my job, I was trying to make sense of everything. There's only so much that I think your brain, that your mindset as you termed, that your awareness can hold the space for at one given time. When you have too many stories and narratives ...

Just think for a moment, if you will, of all the different titles, for example, that we might come by on any given day. All the different labels that we own or that are assigned to us by other's expectations and assumptions. From being human, male or female or both, gender association to race and religion to what is your job title, are you a mother or a father, are you a partner or a wife or a husband, are you a child or a son, do you have children?

This is actually an exercise that I do in my storytelling for leadership workshops. You can run upwards of 80 to 100 on any given day of all the different titles that you assign to yourself and that are assigned to you. When you start by looking at the number of titles that are assigned to you, all those different titles can hold maybe one to five different stories to them of how you came to be this and what is it right now and what is the potential for it in the future.

I say that just to say the number of stories that we're expecting to hold and maintain in our poor little brains is enormous. The act of examining which stories are dominating your thoughts and your mindset and your heart space, I think is really important. Meditation and things like this are beautiful but they still reside in the mind. The ability to just reflect on that in written form is where I believe you begin to develop a relationship to see how malleable the stories ultimately are.

Although they feel very much dictated to us a lot of the time, there's a lot of stories we feel like we can't escape, when you do put pen to paper ... You don't have to be a writer. You don't have to be a member of my writers group just to say, "This is the story that I'm feeling or experiencing. I am depressed but do I really have to be?" Then you realize that the stories in our heads and in our hearts are just as malleable or editable, if you will, as when we write them on paper or we type them out on the computer.

Ultimately, a story is a choice. When you sit down to start to examine and say maybe the three stories that are really dictating how you feel everyday and how you perceive yourself, this is where you start. If you never expressed it then you have nothing to build upon or to edit or to change.

Just the act of writing them and observing them, you can literally put a match to that paper and light it on fire and say, "I'm starting over." Or you can start to take a red pen and start to edit, speaking metaphorically now. Or you could literally light something on fire if you really want to. I wouldn't stop you as long as you're being safe about it.

I can't believe you added that.

Just for the sake of liability. Just observing the stories in written form physically affirms to you that you have the ability to change them. If you are in a space of writing or creative self-expression or coaching, start to notice where you find your stories, oral or written, going. Do you find yourself continually going back to a story of a few years ago?

I will never forget this one conversation I had Susan, where I asked somebody, this was a few years ago. I just had met somebody who was a friend of a friend. We were sitting down for coffee. It was like a meet and greet sort of thing. I said, "Tell me about yourself. What are you doing these days that's getting you really excited?" She said, "Two years ago, I had this really bad breakup." She went on for about 40 minutes talking about two years ago. I stopped her after the 40 minutes. I was really waiting for her to bring it home for those 40 minutes.

I just very gently said, "Do you realize that the question was, what's exciting you nowadays? In other words, what are you looking forward to? What are you co-creating for your future, your short term future with the people with whom you work and other people around you?"

Her instinct was to go back to two years. She had to set the stage for right now two years prior. That told me, as a writer and as a storyteller and as a story coach, that there was still a lot of her own story that she could not yet rationalize. She hadn't brought it up to speed. I encouraged her to sit down on her own and to work all of these out as much as she could so that when somebody asked her again, "What are you doing right now?" she didn't need to preface it with a two year run up.

That's the type of thing where we're in a space of service or giving, that we need to be extra cognizant and extra aware of where our heads are and where our hearts are. Because if we're still working out things in the recent past or the distant past, which is completely fine and completely normal, it risks bogging others down whom we're trying to serve and help.

That's just an added caveat of presumably if you're in PR, you're doing something, you're creating something, you're helping others do that and bringing people along to help create a future and do something special in the here and now. It's just a matter of being extra cognizant of where your mind is and where your heart is and where the stories are holding you back from. If they are holding you back then you're not living as much as you can in the moment and doing as much as you can with the time that you have.

I think that's so true. That woman's story from two years ago was so fresh that it was dominating, what you're saying is that it was dominating her complete reality. She couldn't even get to the happiness part without telling you all of the sadness that was holding her down. It sounds like the happiness part, what was really juicing her, wasn't really even available at that moment for her to articulate.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Consider which part of the storytelling for leadership and PR is karmic, a past story orientation; and which is dharmic or future story orientation

It's all based on the story. A lot of the story work that I do and the story work that I've done for myself ... I break it down, the yogi in me breaks it down, as which part of the story is karmic or is it a past story orientation, and which is dharmic or future story orientation? In the philosophy of yoga, as well as in Hinduism, as well as Buddhism, all the new age-y stuff that we latch onto and also apply to our own lives today, regardless of religious denomination ...

Wait. Which part of the story is karmic, which is past? Which part is dharmic?

The philosophy of karma is that it's things that you're carrying from the past or things that you need to learn to heal yourself. Healing yourself of the past stuff so that you can be fully healed here and now. Dharmic or dharma is another belief around your destiny, your faith, your purpose in this lifetime. These things are independent from one another but they're also really entwined when you think about it.

For the example of this woman who I'd asked basically what is the dharmic story that she's living right now. What is her purpose? What is her passion? What's lighting her up? What is she doing these days? She instantly went back into, "These are my wounds that I'm still trying to heal and overcome." It was almost like she was telling me passively that she couldn't be fully in her mission because she was still holding on to wounds and pains of her past.

A lot of the storytelling for leadership and PR work that I'll do is simply noticing, when I have a new client, where does their instinct take them? Does it go into their future story orientation of, I see a vision where people who are young mothers, they've just given birth to their children, their young child, they want to get back on the health track but they're feeling really bogged down by expectations, by this presumption that they're going to have to be not only very tired but look tired and not have time for themselves.

Not only be tired but look tired.

Right. The coach says, "I want to change that by giving them the resources that they need to find fifteen minutes of healthful living so that they can ... yada, yada, yada." I'm just literally making this up off the top of my head. That's a future story orientation. I can see, this person has a very vested stake in creating a future for ideal clients.

Then I can go into clients ... Let's call her Samantha. "Samantha, why do you care so much about this person?" Chances are very good that she has lived a similar story. I take her back into her past story orientation, her karmic story. Chances are very good, not always necessarily, but there's a good chance that she's lived this story herself or she's experienced it firsthand.

That's really where we get the meat and potatoes of the story to complement what vision she has for somebody, which is to say, "I want this for you because I've lived it myself. These are things that I've experienced and so on and so forth." These two sides of the story really interplay quite a bit. It comes down to being your own story as your own form of PR is to examine your relationship between past and future story orientation.

It can feel a little bit like a seesaw. Some days you're living in the past, some days the future. It's all about just finding the threads that you can pull into the center where you are here and now so that you can keep doing what you do so well and sharing where you've been, what you've done and also what your vision is for the future for people, for your ideal clients, your ideal customers, your readers, etc. So that you can just keep living here and now and doing the best work that you can.

It can feel, at times, overwhelming. It's really just about asking yourself, "Where do I want to move forward with my ideal people and how can I bring some of those threads of the past with me to help people understand it and resonate with it and learn from it?" It all ties itself together in the here and now where you can tell a very short story ... 

What you Susan, read for me to introduce me, of dreaming of being a presidential speech writer someday. You can see the roots of my writing passion and also the vision that I used to have for myself but feeling disillusioned and now I added depressed. It was the impetus for me to leave and to try to do my own thing and be a leader in my own life using writing as my tool and vessel.

Just in a few sentences, you who's listening, can have a pretty healthy little understanding. If you did some digging, you did some exploring around those concepts, you can probably figure out that I'm pretty service minded, service oriented. That I'm independent, that I also would want to take it upon myself to create something.

These are all little clues and things that we can use through our language to help us understand when we're resonating with somebody, if they're one of your "people", someone in your tribe or if they're living a different mindset or mentality.

What you're saying too, when you're examining your past and you're pulling these threads through, some people want to discard those painful pasts. What you're saying is that that's informing your future and to keep that in there and make the connection between what your pain or what you've left behind to where you are today. Because that's the whole story.

There's a big movement, "Be vulnerable and show your pain." There's, I think, a graceful way to do it where you're not miring someone in your pain and you're just showing it to them and saying, "Here's where we connect." Do you know what I mean? I think there's a real different between bringing somebody down from the pain of your story versus showing it to them, opening yourself up to show it to them to say, "We're really the same inside and here's why and here's how far I've come and you can too."

Absolutely. It's all about how you tell it. Here's how I can tell, when I'm reading somebody's bio or about me page, I can tell what they've done wrong. Wrong, relatively speaking, like you're saying, you don't want somebody visiting your about me page for example and feeling like they're being pulled into the dark hole from whence you have emerged years prior.

When people use language like saying, "I'm still a work in progress." That doesn't need to be said. That's a disclaimer around somebody's imperfections that is spoken from a place of guilt or shame. It's subtly plants a seed of doubt in the person who's reading it. It's one of those things that I try to encourage people to avoid saying.

You don't need to air out your guilt and your shame and your fear. But you can show someone a very deliberate path from which you have emerged and express it from a place of confidence so that the story of pain or suffering no longer has power over you.

When I talk about depression, I don't want someone to feel depressed when they're reading my story. I want them to know how much the depression was an impetus that sprung me to new heights, that challenged me to go forward. I still would want them to know, this is what depression feels like. If someone's reading it who, for example, is suffering from depression, I'll write in a different way of saying, "I know what you're going through, here's how I can imagine your feeling."

The point is, you can use the suffering, the hardships, the trials, the questions, the doubts to frame up why. Why you are where you are today. When you can explain to somebody why you have a personal stake in what you're doing, what you're trying to do, what you're striving for and what you believe, you don't need any other explanation. Frankly, you don't need many other credentials to validate what you're striving to do.

I had no credentials in doing what I was striving to do. I was a 23-year-old aspiring author who had mediocre writing skills but was hell-bent on doing something with them to serve people. The story that I told then was a lot different from the story that I tell now because I've had seven plus years of experience writing and rewriting and rewriting and also just living. The story changes as we change. It's always a very malleable and changing thing, the stories that we live and the stories that we tell.

I knew that if I shared how much I cared about what I cared about, that people who validated that, the underbelly of passion and consideration and determination, that those are the people I wanted to work with anyway.

Those are the people that I wanted to be my tribe. I didn't want people to look at my subscriber account and my Facebook likes and to take that as validation for what I had to say. I wanted them to feel just how emotionally invested I was, how much I was bleeding into my computer screen for them to feel cared for.

If I can make them feel that, then nothing else mattered. I knew that I was developing trust with them. That's what I value most. That's how I live and that's how I try to tell stories and how I try to create work, where people feel so cared for through the impersonal medium of as I flick my computer.

The computer, this medium which does bring us together but is not human. I think our biology is very confused by the contrast of connecting two people through such an impersonal medium like technology. That's something that's accessible to everybody.

You can't feign how much you care. When you package that and share it in your own unique ways and with poise and grace and confidence, then you have enough at your fingertips, I believe. I've lived it so I can I guess prove it in one limited case study, to say that that's enough for you to start to garnish your own PR and to get attention in all the right ways that honor you and what you believe.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Dave Ursillo guides people on storytelling for leadership and PR through his Literati Writers group.

I like that you say you can't feign how much you care. It's also not about stating it. It's about how you're telling your story. I also like what you said about the validation isn't how many people you have in your Facebook page. It's really when they're looking to someone like you help them tell their story, it is about how much you care and how you've helped others to get to the place that you got to yourself.

Absolutely. I completely believe that, Susan. In a digital world that we keep our faces in, which is such an amazing tool for doing more of the work that we love to do. I have clients who have ranged from the Philippines and Australia and New Zealand to Northern Europe to South Africa and everywhere in between. It's absolutely amazing. I would never be able to do it otherwise.

I think it's really important to remember that even though we're in this digital world of numbers and conversion rates and funnels and marketing, that you can still bring a ton of heart into it. One of my friends, Jacob Sokol, who's a life coach and just an awesome guy, says, "Follow your heart but bring your head with you." There's space for you to bring an abundance of passion and care and consideration and also to have the mental aspect of how do I make this work. It's important to have these two in relationship with one another.

Bring all the care that you can when you're making that evergreen funnel. Bring the amount of passion that another human being deserves when you're telling them a story of overcoming and not just trying to get them to sign up for your newsletter. There's a really beautiful space to finesse ... You mentioned I said coffee is an artistry to me.

Make this an artful thing, whatever it is that you're creating and however you're trying to serve. Make it artful so that it honors you, so that it feels good. So that the journey that you're on right now doesn't feel excruciating, like you're just striving for an outcome or an end goal.

You're in the experience. A cycle of vinyasa, as we would say in yoga, of really intentionally placing things, from words to products to Skype calls, and really making it rewarding. That will have a broader effect. It's the stuff of loving relationships. It's the stuff of bringing communities together. Even though you may be playing in Mail Chimp or in Gmail, it does have an effect that's broader because I believe that how you do anything is how do everything.

Making room for the heart space to market yourself and to reach out to people and to serve people will be necessarily how you carry yourself in everyday life. When you're driving in rush hour or ordering your coffee from your local café or raising your kids or whatever the case may be.

I think that's really true. I think you've expressed it in the word, infused. That as you're writing and as you're going through all of this daily process, whether it's your storytelling or what you're offering somebody, that you are, in part of that process, then you are infusing it with your good intentions and your care for the other person. Not just for yourself, the outcome of the funnel and that sort of thing.

Let me get back for one minute to examining the three stories that are driving you. Because I think that's really an important point in being able to move forward with your future vision. I know for myself, an example, I'm training in Aikido and I'm really a dork. Very awkward and clumsy on the mat.

One of my values is to be graceful and elegant. To have me not do that on the mat and be so awkward is very painful. I remember walking out the door and then I say, "I'm off to dork out on the mat." My sweetie saying, "I don't think that language is helpful to you."

Just to be able to examine that myself, I thought in that moment, I said, "I am continuing to practice to be graceful and proficient on the mat." Now, I'm a black belt. I'm still not graceful. Now, I'm starting to teach Aikido to the beginners. That's a whole new experience that's not yet graceful either, that's very awkward. I'm at the beginning of something, at this age of 59. Beginning at something like that is really challenging too because it's a different type of teaching.

To start to frame that, like when I came last night after teaching, it's like, "How did it go?" I'm like, "Well, it went okay. I really learned from the senior teacher after me how to break things down even more specifically and more understandably. That, I'm going to take to my next teaching." Instead of beating myself up like, "Oh my God, I did an awful job." Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. You will believe the stories that you tell yourself and the stories that you tell others. If you tell yourself, "I'm not a good yoga teacher." Why wouldn't some part of you, subconscious, your soul, be listening to that and start to abide by it? If you tell friends in passing, "I'm undateable. I'll never find a relationship." How open will you be to possibility when somebody walks into your life if you're constantly telling yourself that this thing cannot happen?

It's so basic. It's so simple. That's why it takes so much discipline Susan, to observe the stories that we're telling ourselves. There's so many different options for how to get into ... For me, things like movement and writing, movement as in yoga, help disrupt the stories, the ongoing narratives. What we call in yoga, Samsara or Samskara, which are mental grooves of the mind.

I haven't heard of Samskara. Is that a real word? Samskara versus Samsara?

It's a variation of how you pronounce the same word.

That's really funny. Like you're scarring yourself with your past.

Yeah, basically. It translates to mean mental grooves of the mind or mental grooves. Tracks of the mind that basically, the groves that you imprint upon yourself based on your thoughts. Giving yourself the opportunity in writing or journaling, in yoga, running, walking, being outside, being in nature, doing something that you love, is a great way to disrupt these ongoing tracks of the mind.

Once you disrupt them, then you see the potential for rewriting the story, for telling yourself a different story. For you Susan, it was your partner who was able to reflect back to you, "I don't think that that's a good story that you want to be telling yourself." The ability to just be cognizant and aware creates this world of potential. All that you really need to do is start listening to the stories.

Listen to the ones that you're repeating to yourself. That was a common one for me on the mat. I'm so awkward. I remember something super painful. I'll never forget this, that one of the guys, we were sitting, standing around sensei's desk. I was trying to get a little shot glass out of a cardboard, the cardboard thing that held it. I ripped it by accident. This one guy said to me, "Just like your Aikido." I was stunned and hurt. I've ripped this, not gotten it out gracefully, just like my Aikido.

How you do anything is how you do everything. We're expressing the same stories in different unique ways all the time. The more that you can thread your awareness of them into just knowing that it's all you ...

Not to let others reinforce that, that's what I'm saying. That reinforced my own story about my own Aikido. I just have to say, even though I don't know that I've let that go, it's something that burned into my mind. On the other hand, I'm continually training to what we call Shugyo, which disciplined training toward enlightenment, no matter how far off it is. That continual training is what you're saying in examining your mind and then putting it down in writing and refining it. Putting it into your future on paper.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Storytelling for leadership and PR is a story journey, much like learning yoga or Aikido.

It's all a process and it's all one of refinement. The journey that we're on, let alone the story journey, is not linear. It's cyclical. It's repeating. It's a journey of depth, of getting deeper into the truth and to the essence of what we want to be living and how we want to be living it. Basically, just about everything in their life can reflect the stories.

Like you mentioned Susan, there's other people who reinforce those stories to you. You might have an old friend who tells you that you're the one who's undateable just based on ha-ha or this is what we've always joked about. You have to be aware of the stories that others impress upon you as well and question if you want those stories in your life at all. Because your energy, it's your story. You have permission to cut out what doesn't serve you and to welcome in what does.

I think that's true. You also mentioned using movement to shift the story. Using yogic movement or any kind of movement. Aikido is the same thing. We're using movement to move the energy but also to move the stories and to create new neural pathways, when you were talking about those mental grooves. I think yoga, any kind of physical movement, is instrumental in shifting those grooves.

Absolutely, because movement, as you mentioned, shifts energy. When we shift energy, transformation occurs. On the mental plane, when we're shifting energy and moving energy as we move our bodies, we're disrupting, like I was talking about, the Samsara, the Samskara. The mental grooves of the mind, the narratives that the ego is entrenched in and doesn't see any other way around because it's so comfortable in those stories.

Our minds get very comfortable with what is known. That's the scary part of changing your story, is that the mind, the human mind, we call it the lizard brain or the monkey mind or all these different terms that are given to this lower state, the animal state of acknowledging ourselves. The mind is always going to feel more comfortable with what is known than what is unknown.

What's unknown is always going to feel uncomfortable or threatening or vulnerable. Even if we know in our conscious minds that where we want to go is good and healthy and positive, it's still unknown and it still intimidates us and scares us. The mind is really good at keeping this semblance of harmony with what is simply known and comfortable and certain.

Even something small, like going to a yoga class or going for a walk, being in nature, gardening as we were talking about before we started our interview Susan, just communing with tags that make you very present and physical and embodied, in your body or embodied. You give yourself a window of opportunity to see the truth and feel the truth beyond that your mind is telling you is comfortable and safe because it is known and certain.

You can shift. Sometimes if I'm crabby, I'll just go out and sniff flowers or cut off the dead leaves just to be out in nature and the hear the birds, just do things like that. I have a blue jay that comes when I call to get his peanut. It's so fun. He'll sit on the tree, "Hey, where's my peanut?" It's just sometimes that five minutes or even 30 minutes can shift your mindset. Just doing something a little bit different and then come back and just shift that.

You got to give yourself the chance. Give yourself the chance to just think anew and feel anew and be renewed. Suddenly, you discover all this room of possibility that's always been there. You just got to risk yourself into it, I guess.

We've been talking about a lot of great story telling things and ways to tell your story and how to get the negative stories out of your head. What about some of the things that people may be doing wrong with their storytelling for leadership and PR that they don't know? We mentioned one thing, which was don't say, "I'm a work in progress," because we know that. Or don't blurt out, "I'm being vulnerable here."

That's to me, one of the worst things you can do. It's like saying, "Honestly or I'm being honest now or I'm telling you the truth now." It's like, what have you been doing before? What other kinds of things do people typically do incorrectly in their storytelling that they could shift so the tell a story that really reflects them and really inspires other people to connect with them and co-create with them?

Right off the top of my head Susan, there's either not committing yourself to labels or titles. That's a very common one. We know that you're an enlightened yogi, new age philosopher and you don't subscribe to the fact that your soul can be contained within a title, like writer or coach. But for your reader, it's ever important for them to be able to place who you are and what you're claiming to be and what you're trying to do instantly upon meeting you.

It's just one of those things where I was joking and being efficacious. If somebody really feels uncomfortable with assigning a label to themselves because they're like, "I'm not just these things. I'm not just a PR coach. I'm not just in marketing." We know that. Like you were mentioning Susan, you don't need to disclaim that you're more than these things. We can assume it.

Just as when you're meeting somebody for the first time and somebody says, "What do you do?" You give them some nuggets of information that they can chew on to understand and start to place you.

Oftentimes, when people feel really reluctant to give themselves their titles, it makes the readers feel uncommitted to you because they feel like you're not committing to them, you're not giving them the trust that they deserve to know more about who you are and what you do.

On the other hand, there is another trend, which people in a self-help or personal development or coaching space do. It's tongue and cheek but I also find that it's really unhelpful if have limited real estate for describing yourself. I usually use two to three titles to help a reader triangulate who you are and what you do.

I can use some variation of writer or author. I'll mention being a yogi or a yoga teacher and I'll mention either running an online writers group or being a business storyteller so that people have this triangulation around me. They see that I write, that some of the work that I do involves business storytelling and that I also happen to be a yogi or a yoga teacher.

There's an understanding that there's a holistic approach to the ways in which I do things or there's some essence of spirituality or whatever you define yoga as. The other way of doing that is creating a title like happiness lover or joy-ologist or catalyst.

I like joy-ologist.

It's nice, it's really nice but unless you're really onboard with that ...

Do you mind if I take that? Because that's one of core values too, is to spread joy. I haven't thought about calling myself a joy-ologist but I love that.

It's fine and it can reflect what you do, but I would rather Susan, rather than saying you're a joy-ologist, say some of the relatable tiles that I understand and then to say, "Susan is XYZ who is intent on spreading joy to people through her work." Almost you can just shift, you can get away from the title maybe isn't so self-explanatory and using the economy of your language in such a way where you can reflect more deliberately and also ...

I can use it in the triangle ... Not all by itself. It's like, "I work with people to double or triple their business using soundbites effectively in publicity, and in that process I'm a joy-ologist."

But you have to explain that too.

I do it with joy because sometimes people think it's such a painful process to move from private to public person.

BAMD0041 | Storytelling for leadership

Moving from private to public storytelling for leadership and PR can be a difficult shift.

See, I love how you just explained it. That's perfect. That's why I almost askew people away from using titles that they know what they mean but others don't. It's fun but it's one of those questions where your reader, your perspective client or customer, how are they interpreting that and what does it mean to them?

One of the greatest adages in all of communications is, it's not what you say that matters, it's what people hear. Ultimately, that's what we're trying to do. It's difficult because you don't know how people are defining these different words and phrases. We're trying to give people the best semblance of bridging what we're saying to what they're hearing. Those are a couple of things with titles. It can be tricky but it can also be a lot of fun when you nerd out about it like you and I do. Like we are doing right here and now.

It was fun just to play with it, to shift that. I think it's different saying it versus writing it too. In that kind of conversation, I can transition or I can say use the startle. Joy-ologist is like, "Wait a minute. I don't know what that means." Just to shift the attention. You're like, "Wait a minute, what does that mean?" Then you can have the conversation, "What it means is ..." Shifting that pain to pleasure, blah blah blah. I think this different. That was really fun to just play with that. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you wanted to add?

No, I think we've covered a lot of ground. I certainly hope for you, the listener, that's it been helpful and engaging. We've given you plenty to chew on and different things to try out. Just remember, it is a journey. You shouldn't know everything based on the extent of this one call. I trust that these things that I've told you are things that I wish that I had learned a little bit more quickly. I learned them mostly on my own, out of my own stubbornness, trying to figure it out on my own for way too long. If I had had them early on, I think it would have been much a great help.

I also would like to extend that I'm more than available to chat with you if you do have any questions. You can find me, as Susan mentioned, at DaveUrsillo.com. My online writers group is the Literati Writers, which you can find at LiteratiWriters.com if you'd like to get into a three month expansive, spacious, creative experience that is lately guided, mostly self-guided, but includes premium writing prompts.

It's basically an online space that is protected for you to explore your self-expression to write more, to learn how to write better through some yogic principles and a chakra guided E-course. Also more importantly, non-judgments, no criticism, no fear of trolling or anything. It's a place where you can express yourself and feel safe.

Do you jump into that place? You jump in and then ...

Yeah, I write myself.

You have group calls and things like that in there?

Exactly.

That's DaveUrsillo.com and LiteratiWriters.com where you can connect with Dave and share in his enthusiasm and creating your different stories and maybe get some good yogic tips about shifting your Samsara.

There you go. Exactly right.

Thank you so much for being our guest today, Dave. This is great information on storytelling for leadership. A totally different view on storytelling I think, really from deep inside. To not just crafting a story but getting to the essence of your past and really envisioning your future. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly right. A story is a soulful process. To me and to those of you who want to be experiencing a soulful rewarding journey through your work and how you're creating change, then story is one way to start to tap into that and to really keep yourself authentic and aligned to the values that are motivating the actions and the work and how you show up in the world.

Thank you so much. I so appreciate that. Thank you, Dave.

Thank you, Susan. Appreciate the time.

About Dave Ursillo

Dave Ursillo is a teacher of writing, creativity, yoga and all things self-expression. He's a former politico who once walked in the west wing of the White House and aspired to become a presidential speech writer. Then in 2009, disillusioned with the state of politics and questioning his role in the system, Dave quit his job and abandoned his career in public service to live a life of personal leadership, using writing as his vessel for change. Today, Dave works with conscientious creatives, innovative professionals, heart centered self-starters and everyday yogis who wish to live, serve and thrive at the crossroads of self-knowledge and self-expression. He's published five books and been published six more. He's led writing, creativity and yoga workshops in eight countries.

He's the founder of the Literati Writers, a private membership writing community, which teaches writers of all levels how to stop struggling and start loving their writing at LiteratiWriters.com, that's the home of his positivity infused online writing group. When Dave is not writing, he loves to travel abroad. He's been to India twice. He considers coffee an act of artistry and wants to help humans love one another. Find Dave and his 400 published pieces of writing at DaveUrsillo.com.

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Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

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Susan Harrow Podcast

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  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

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    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

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    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

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    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

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How You Can Get a 6 Figure Book Advance

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You’re welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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How You Can Get a 6 Figure Book Advance

When my co-author of “How You Can Get a 6 Figure Book Advance” and I read my client Rich Fettke’s book proposal for “Extreme Success” (which got a 6 figure book deal,) we noticed something surprising: It’s not the writing editors are buying, it’s the person. The writing is secondary.  Of course, every author hates to hear that. But in today’s marketplace it’s the sad truth. Editors at top New York publishing houses told us repeatedly that the most important thing a writer can have today — if they want to get a book deal — is a strong “platform.” Any book proposal template must include a robust, detailed explanation of your platform. A platform is a plan of how you are going to reach your audience to sell books.

According to Michael Korda, author of Making The List, the formula to get on the bestseller lists has not changed in the last 60 years. “It begins with an idea, a concept, a market and the author with a platform who can tell a story and reach that market.” In order to get a book deal you’ll need to have all this in place.

The consensus from editors was that the author can always hire a ghostwriter to fix the writing, but no one can replace the writer, his personality, his presence, and his reach—his colossal reach. In a nutshell, the single most important thing editors want to know before they give you a book deal  is your ability to sell your own books. The days are over when writers can expect publishers to “sell” their books. There’s only one person whose job that is today—yours.

How Can I Get a Literary Agent

How to Get a Literary Agent

What to do? First, when you write a book proposal think of it as the business plan for your book. You’re in charge of creating the blueprint that shows editors why your book is going to be the next best-seller. You must show that you are the mediagenic personality that will skyrocket sales. You need solid proof, not hype or hyperbole in order to land a book deal.

  1. Get endorsements.

Secure big names. The first thing an agent or editor sees is critical. Endorsements show that you’re respected in the world. They can’t be from your cousin or neighbor. They need to be from celebrities, best-selling authors and well-known experts in your field. Endorsements demonstrate that high-level people believe in you, that you’re a good bet. They also go on your book cover jacket and help sell your book—and in today’s competitive marketplace that’s essential. Don’t say you’re “actively seeking endorsements.” When writing your book proposal lead with the endorsements you have so an agent or editor sees that you’re a big shot—or soon will be.

Write your own accolades. One of my clients who can get an endorsement from Hillary Clinton, thought she had to wait until her book was done to do so because she imagined that Ms. Clinton would have to read it. I advised her to have Ms. Clinton write an endorsement about her character, not the content of the book. I know this might be shocking to you, but I also suggested that she should take the initiative and write up a couple examples for Hillary to choose from. Most people, particularly well-known people, don’t have time to read your book and then write up a gem of a quote—and you shouldn’t expect them to. What best-selling authors know is that to get great endorsements they often write them themselves.

  1. Prove you have a platform.

Tout your fans. Your platform demonstrates that you have a built-in audience already, people who want your book, want to hear you speak, and will buy your book. Publishers are looking for authors the public is already interested in. So one of the most important things you can do to land a book deal is to give the perception that you have adoring fans waiting for this book. Adoring fans find out about you through several venues: The media, speaking engagements, and reading your work in print publications. The days of stay at home writers are gone.

Show you’re somebody. “Why would you buy a book from someone who isn’t the best or someone you’ve never heard of?” says Nick Darrell, editor at HarperCollins. We need to be hearing about you—on radio and TV, in the news, in the print media (newspapers, magazines, newsletters), online, everywhere. Darrell, says, “We look at what kind of media exposure an author has had, how visible they are before they come to us. That’s a huge factor.”

Demonstrate you have connections. A platform is made up of your track record for exposure in the media and to audiences across the globe. What magazines have you written for or appeared in? What TV and radio shows have you been a guest on. Are those producers aching to get you back on their shows? Do you have established relationships with them? Are you giving keynotes, seminars and workshops to hundreds of people every month? Do you have a strong Internet presence? How many people subscribe to your online newsletter, visit your site, buy your products? Do you have big name clients who will host seminars at their companies for you where you’re guaranteed to sell books? What kind of professional achievements do you have? What awards, achievements, or honors have you received for exceptional work that show you’re a top expert?

Quantify, quantify, quantify. It’s not good enough simply to list these accolades. Most authors just tell about past experiences they’re most proud of. It’s not what you’re most proud of that counts, it’s what makes the most difference to an editor.

Every time you mention these venues quantify them in terms of the number of people you’ve reached in the past, how it affected your product or book sales and how it will continue to do so in the future. One of my clients who is a $12,000 an hour speaker put in his book proposal the fact that his audiences range from 100-10,000 people, and he speaks 250 times per year. His speaking bureau typically sells his video and audio tapes to those audiences in advance when they book his talk. Those guaranteed sales in large quantities impresses publishers.

Not everyone has that kind of clout. If you are a first time author you need to show that you have the potential to create a track record through your talent, enthusiasm and contacts. One way to do that is by showing how your successful experience in another field translates to selling your book.

  1. Create an entire publicity plan.

Tour Yourself. “Don’t say you’re ‘willing’ to travel. That implies that you expect us to tour you and we hate that,” says Kelly Notaras, a Senior Editor at Hyperion. “Instead say, ‘I am going to travel and have made arrangements and will pay my own way.’” Demonstrate in concrete terms your strategy to tour yourself. Your publisher will often follow you once you’ve demonstrated a commitment to promoting yourself. The more publicity you do on your own the more money they contribute to your publicity. If your book has “legs” then they’ll make sure it keeps running if you do.

Template to write a book proposal

Write a Book Proposal

Use the Tupperware Party Strategy. Even if you’re a publicity newbie you can do this. Have your friends in every city set up book signings at their local bookstores. It won’t feel like a Tupperware party, in the sense that the invitees will feel obligated to buy a plastic tub they don’t want. “All the people who were invited to my party thanked the host profusely,” says Lisa Earle McLeod, author of Forget Perfect. They thought they got a special treat because Lisa was “an author.” They felt like they “knew someone who knew a celebrity” and they got invited to this special event. What impresses agents and editors is when you say “These are the 15 cities I’ll be in and I’ll sell 500 books per city.” Then they know they are dealing with someone who can deliver on their promise.

Sidebar.

The 4 Biggest Mistakes Even Experienced Authors Make.

Ingenues think that the publisher’s publicist will take care of the publicity.

Publicists at publishing houses are overworked and underpaid. And on top of that you’re a low priority. You come after the celebrities, the experts, the already famous, and their dog Fi Fi for that matter. They typically have 5-20 books to promote each season. You do the math.

  1. Don’t hire their own publicist.

The uninitiated think they can do it all themselves without help. Publicity is a more than a full-time job. Plan on hiring the best publicist you can afford. Save one-third to one-half of your advance money for publicity.

  1. Don’t say they’re going to devote substantial money to publicity.

Say it! Say it! Tell them how you’re going to spend gigantic sums of money to promote yourself. Tell them the amount of this gigantic sum. If you don’t have this huge sum say you’ll devote a percentage of your advance (about a third).

  1. Spend too little time on the proposal.

It typically takes 3-9 months. Don’t skimp. Your book is your baby, the world needs it. Don’t rush the process.

RESOURCES

Keen to know more? Get 10 free tips on how you can get a 6 figure book advance here.

Ready to jump in to write your book proposal? Here you go.

Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You’re welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


How a Black Belt Test is Like Your First Big Media Appearance


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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How a Black Belt Test is Like Your First Big Media Appearance

I have my black belt test in Aikido this morning. And I was thinking back to when the first time I gave media coaching training and everybody came up to me separately. Every single person in that course came up to me, cornered me alone, and told me why they weren't at their best that day. So I think that there's always something that happens that makes us think we’re not at our best.

I remember one person told me that she was about to be on Oprah and she got a call that her father was dying. So she had to choose between being by her father’s side or having a once in a life chance to be on Oprah. Of course she chose to be by her father's side. She said she has no regrets. But usually something that happens to us is not that dramatic.

So for me before my Aikido black belt test the first thing that happened is I tweaked out my knee. I did not tweak it out on the mat I tweaked it out practicing, what's called sawari-waza which is knee throws in the bedroom. So I tweaked out my knee, I've got ice on it right now and I’m going to be taking Advil before the test because it's really hurting me.

Aikido training

Aikido Japanese Martial Arts

The second thing that happened is that my eyes are drying out. Suddenly in the middle of the night my eyes are like sandpaper. Everything is super dry and irritating. Right now I have my glasses on because I’m going to put in my contacts in the last minute.

The next thing that happened is I got a big spider bite. It's driving me crazy. It's itching, it’s swollen it’s on my stomach. Then the other thing that happened is my shoulders are actually killing me. I’ve been doing so much computer work. I've been laying on my massage man but it's still really achey.

Oh, and then the last thing is, and this might seem kind of trivial, but I have two giant zits on my forehead. And I usually don't get zits at all so that's sort of the least of my worries doing the test.

But what I'm saying is that they're all of these kinds of things that conspire against me and you may say, “You know, I'm not at my best right now. But the thing is that we need to put that aside and just be a 100% in the moment. Be in the present moment.

So what the most important thing is to connect to your host and to connect to the audience. How do you do that? How do you put aside all of this stuff that's going on in your life? Whether it's that your child has a 100-degree temperature, or you've just gotten fired at work, or chastised by your boss, or you've gotten in an accident on the way to the studio.

Whatever it is, small or large, one of the things that you can do is something that I learned from the Dalai Lama, which I love very much. Which is you imagine yourself as a tree. And that tree, the roots go all the way into the ground and then they touch every single person in the audience. So you're deeply connected, you're deeply grounded and rooted. And then you're also connected to all people. Because typically what happens when we're nervous is the energy zooms up to our head. So we want to bring it down and through the feet and be grounded.

Aikido Japanese Martial Arts

Aikido high fall

I remember Lee Glickstein, who created speaking circles, and is one of my clients said to me “If you're ever feeling separate and if ever you have fear to be in front of an audience that you're going to be ashamed or you're going to do something stupid, that you still feel separation from all people.” So it's that feeling of being one that people are instead of conspiring against you are conspiring for you.

So the Dalai Lama exercise really grounds you deeply into the Earth and also connects you to all beings. Your audience, and then you can spread it out to the whole world. Whoever you're communicating with through the medium of TV or radio or print.

The other thing that you can do that calms you down right away is a deep breathing for 5 seconds in and 5 seconds out. And if you can do that at least 10 times it calms down the autonomic nervous system. And I’m going to be doing that this morning because my stomach right now is in knots and I've already gone to the bathroom twice so I'm going to spend some time breathing. And I'm certainly going to be doing breathing while I'm on the mat before my test.

The other thing is something that I learned from Hale Dwoskin of the Sedona Method, which is when some nervousness or whatever comes up to just let it go. And something else may come up in the next moment, but it's a process of consciously just letting it go in the next breath, in the next breath, in the next breath.

So you can be 100% present when you're in that TV studio or in that radio studio looking the host in the eye and remembering what it is you want to convey to your audience. What does your audience need to know most, and how can you help? And stay focused on that. That takes the emphasis off of you and puts it on what you have to give to your audience. So that's a way to flip it.

So that's how a black belt test is like a TV appearance. No matter what happens at this crucial moment, whatever happens before, you just let it go and you enjoy your beautiful media moment. So stand your ground, speak your mind, sing your song, wish me luck on my black belt test and I will talk to you soon. Bye.

P.S. I'm not training for my second degree black belt test which will be in about a year.

RESOURCES

Creative ways to reach out to the media to get noticed + known

The 100 Word Email That Can Get The Media To Call You. (It's free!)

Secrets to Getting Top TV Talk Show Producers to Book You as Their Guest

Can't Figure Out Publicity?

How Do I Get Publicity?

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


Take The Perfect Picture For O Magazine With Lori A. Cheung


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Take The Perfect Picture for O Magazine With Lori A. Cheung

I’m here with award winning pet photographer, Lori Cheung on how to take the perfect picture to get into O Magazine. I met her at a NASDAQ event for storytelling. I found out that she was on my E-zine subscriber list. It was really wonderful to see her in person. We found out that we both did martial arts. That was three connections in one.

We’re interviewing Lori today because she got into O, The Oprah Magazine. She’s got quite a background because she has been photographing for over 40 years. That is 280, probably more by now, because this is just from your website Lori, happy dog years. She’s an expert in capturing the essence of dogs, and cats, and horses, and their humans. There’s such a wonderful picture of you on your website, it’s so cute because both of you and Flash have got this big adorable grins together. You just both look so happy and lovely.

Thank you. He’s the mascot.

He is the mascot. You couldn’t have a better mascot. Lori is the founder of ThePetPhotographer.com and also ThePortraitPhotographer.com. She does both portraits of you and your pet or you by yourself. She’s also the founder of Pets for World Peace, which she’s going to tell us a little bit more about. It’s such a beautiful vision. Her intention is to inspire love and joy. Lori’s style illuminates the essence and the brilliance of her subjects, which I can totally attest to because I've looked through your portfolio and it is so joy filled. That’s part of who you are. I just want to say you are a super connector. You know everybody and you’ve already connected me up with some wonderful people. It’s part of your personality and your mission, is just to connect.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

Lori's portfolio is so joy filled, all of which could be a perfect picture for O Magazine.

Thank you, Susan. I think connecting people so that their dreams can come true is really one of my life’s purposes here. I just love seeing people’s visions and their creativity come through. Maybe they just need to know one more person and that’s the key person.

I love that. We’re going to talk today about how she got into O Magazine, what the process was and anything that might give insights to you to make it easier for you to get into O Magazine. Tell us a little bit about how it started that you got into O Magazine.

O Magazine actually invited me to photograph an incredible veterinarian here in the San Francisco Bay Area, Dr. Harb-Hauser. This article actually happened to be about domestic violence and how that topic usually, it’s the humans and the pets that are involved in that. It’s a very educational article. They invited me to photograph Dr. Harb-Hauser and her dog Daphne, which was such an honor and such a joy.

I got to work with the photo and editorial departments at O Magazine. It was a pure fun experience. It was really a dream come true to work with them. It was awesome because they said that they liked what I provided them because I gave them lots of portraits to choose from. They actually mentioned they had a hard time choosing. That was a good thing. If you give them great photography, then it gives them a cornucopia to pick from, which is what they need.

How many did you give them? What was a lot?

I gave them about a dozen portraits to choose from.

They were all of the veterinarian and her dog?

Dr. Marcella Harb-Hauser and her dog Daphne are together in this portrait. They were a critical part in getting the help that was needed for the domestic violence victim basically. The Marin Humane Society was involved in this particular story.

Were the victims the animals themselves or the people when you say domestic violence?

Both.

It was both the people that were being abused and the pet?

Yes. That’s great education because if a veterinarian or someone notices that a dog or cat has been abused, it might mean that the wife or the husband in that case, whatever, the partner in that household might be getting abused too.

Got you. I hadn’t even thought about that really, that connection. I see how that make sense. I know that’s one of Oprah’s pet peeves in terms of both the abuse of pets and the abuse of people, children in particular, girls in particular even more. She’s so involved in that. It’s interesting that your cause connected both of those things, of the things that were so important to her. I'm just trying to be clear about how this came about, because you didn’t send anything in. They found the veterinarian or they found a picture of you. I wasn’t clear about how they found you both.

They found us through the Marin Humane Society. The Oprah article, I guess the writer perhaps called the Marin Humane Society. We had this really important story to share. They found Dr. Harb-Hauser and Dr. Harb-Hauser said, “Wow. We need photography for this article. Can you please do it?” It was very straightforward. We needed it done quickly.

That’s another tip. It’s nice to have actually portraits ready or a photographer ready that actually understands the quality of portraits and the style that Oprah Magazine enjoys. If I were one of your clients, I'd say, “Why don’t we just start studying the types of portraits that are in the Oprah Magazine so that you fit in to the editorial style.” Clean lines, not a lot of background, very elegant, clean and emotionally powerful make for a perfect picture for O Magazine.

That’s a very great tip to take a picture for O Magazine. I just want to back up for a second just so people understand. What happened is that the trajectory, it was an interesting trajectory. The writer was aware that there was domestic violence and violence to animals. They connected with the Marin Animal Shelter. The veterinarian who was involved knew you and connected to you to pull together the story. The writer wrote about the doctor, the veterinarian, the situation, and you took the pictures, is that right?

Yes. Actually the veterinarian was an existing client, so that was fantastic.

Got it. You already had some photographs done of her or you had to do all new ones?

We actually did both. We wanted to give them a choice. I already had some portraits of her that she looked amazing in. We also wanted to freshen them up and see if they wanted a new style. We photographed again, which was great. Think about being an editor of a magazine, you want variety. That’s another tip. Variety of maybe clothing type, backgrounds, the colors even.

Because there’s an ad, there’s an advertisement on the other side of this page. The colors that are actually in my client’s clothing, it’s so complimentary to the ad that’s next to it. The same colors even there as a complimentary color in the ad. It’s pretty wild actually.

It is wild but it’s not wild because that’s part of the job of the editorial, to make the flow of the magazine always look good and look natural. An ad would look as natural as an article. I think that was probably done on purpose to have that flow, especially now in the Internet age where there’s advertorials where you can't necessarily tell the difference between an advertisement and a story. If they're closely matched like that, somebody might move on to that advertisement thinking that it’s a story.  

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

The picture for O Magazine that Lori took featuring Dr. Harb-Hauser.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

Ad that matched with the picture for O Magazine Lori submitted

Great point. Totally great point. I photographed her in her veterinarian uniform as well, which is plain white.

They didn’t choose that one?

No. They decided to choose a blue shirt on her instead.

Interesting.

That blue happens to be, beautifully, the highlight color in the advertisement next to it.

Interesting. That’s fascinating. It was really great that you gave a variety of photographs that were done before and then ones that might be more current so they had a choice of what would fit in to probably their advertorial or their advertising, who’s paying for the magazine, as well as what’s going to be of interest to readers. Because we can't discount that, that’s how the magazine gets supported. Whether people say, “That’s not a good thing,” it’s actually very smart because that’s what’s supporting the magazine, it’s not your $18.

Exactly. Another tip is, I gave some portraits that are vertical and horizontal so that they could crop how they wanted it to crop. It depends on how much space they have. The photographer needs to give them extra space around the subjects. There’s more wiggle room, more flexibility in the designing of the magazine’s layout.

Give them the option, vertical, horizontal, and give them the option to crop and keep with the look of the magazine, which is clean and beautiful and gorgeous and sumptuous and all of that. Those are super great tips. What else did you do? Was there anything else that you did to make it easy for them?

I really wanted to make it easy by giving them the portraits as quickly as possible. My turnaround time from the day that I knew that we were doing the photoshoot to getting the proofs. They're called proofs when it’s the first round basically. I did that on the same day so that they weren’t waiting around for it. I know that there are a lot of deadlines that they're working on. I think that was the big thing, is just be really quickly responsive as far as touchups. If they wanted me to do touchups, I was ready and just wanted to do anything I could to make their life easier.

Did they consult with you on the content of the actual article?

The writing was actually finished I think before the photography was placed.

Did you have a chance to read it before you did the photography or did you just know what the feel was and went through with the photography based on what they asked?

They didn’t release the text to inform me what it was really … I knew what it was about generally. I think I asked them if I could read it first. I don’t think it was just available to us. Maybe they want to surprise us. I don't know. I'm a big Oprah fan. That’s so amazing. Who knows?

You didn’t read it until after?

I read it afterwards. It was such a moving, incredibly important article that I wish everyone can read it. It was great. It was an honor to work on this article.

I'm hoping we’ll be able to link to it so people can read it and see the process. Would it be possible also for you to give us the photographs that you sent to Oprah and then the ones the she chose? It would be really great to see if you still have them. I don’t know if you do. If you even have a few of them to say, “This is what I sent and then this is what she chose.” I think that might be a really nice thing for people to see it visually. Is that possible?

Yes. I would be happy to do that.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

Take the perfect picture for O Magazine with Lori's tip on giving extra space around the subject.

I think that would be really great. Because I know sometimes how hard it is to get a photograph right. I was working with a client who was in contact with Oprah’s Magazine. She had food, she had cookies. The photographs were not beautiful, they had shadows, they weren’t vibrant and crisp. I had advised her, just like what you said, she needed to get a professional photo shoot and someone who was a food stylist to create the look that Oprah was going for. They loved her cookies but I don’t think they loved the photographs. They couldn't use the picture for O Magazine. If they can't use the photographs, they can't put the cookies in the magazine no matter how good they taste.

We have certain tricks of the trade we use for food photography to make it look extra yummy. It comes across differently when you're looking at it two dimensionally on a glossy magazine page versus three dimensionally with real lighting around it and all that. Lighting is particularly important for food, very important.

What about for pets and people? Because you do both. You have ThePetPhotographer.com and ThePortraitPhotographer.com and Pets for World Peace. Do you do most of your shots outside?

Yes. I love using nature as my backdrop. I just love it. I love natural lighting. I love sky, and ocean, and rocks, and mountains. I think it’s because the dogs love being out there. For cats and kittens, I love photographing on their favorite sofa with maybe a really gorgeous pillow behind them or a fabric that really pops in color or something that makes their eyes standout, their eye color standout or something.

I love that. I love that idea. Take us through what else happened after. How long was the process of getting your picture for O Magazine published? You said they were on a short deadline. I'm curious also from the time that they asked you to do the photo until the article appeared, how long was it?

I believe the turnaround time from the photography submission was about a month later or so.

It got in the magazine a month later?

I think it’s about a month or so.

That’s fairly short. It sounds like they already had the article. That was done and they were just waiting for the last … Since it was already in process. Just so the audience knows, the typical process is three to six months to two years to get into O MagazineSometimes after repeated attempts. What happened with Lori is that the article was already done, so they wanted more components of it. It sounds like it was already scheduled for that issue and they then tapped you for the last step of that issue, they needed the perfect picture for O Magazine. That was a fairly tight deadline.

Yes. That’s another thing. The high quality photographs, the quicker you can get them there, the better because it’s like a sigh of relief. I could almost hear it in New York from the San Francisco bay Area, "This is the piece, done." It’s so deadline driven. There are so many components going on. The sigh, I could feel, of relief came over here.

Was there any other thing that you needed to interact about or any other requests that they had of you before they finalized the spread?

It was so smooth. It was really with ease and grace. They want to make sure that they have the copyright information correctly. The photographer’s copyright or the writer’s copyright. They want to make sure they have everything spelled correctly and just everything’s perfect. By the time they're out printing, it’s all ready.

When it posted in O Magazine, did it have any effect on your business?

It was wonderful because people would remember that I was printed in there and I was able to just enjoy the feeling of having a dream come true actually. The synchronicity is that Oprah is one of the persons in my life that inspired me to become a photographer after I was doing my environmental consulting career in skyscrapers in San Francisco. It was a perfect whole moment that came around of fulfilling my creative dream and gratitude I have for Oprah and her whole team.

I love that. Obviously, getting into O Magazine is really a big thing. How have you leveraged that? You have it on your website right under, “Award-winning Pet Photographer, Lori A. Cheung” you have, “As seen in O, the Oprah Magazine and on Animal Planet,” which is really fantastic too. Underneath, you have all your other media placements.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

Leverage the fact that you have a published picture for O Magazine on your website.

How have you used that or leveraged that for either getting clients who are maybe not in the Bay Area or who are philanthropic? I know you do a lot of work in the philanthropy area especially for Pets for World Peace. Do you use that to just give you credibility for people who need to vet you?

I think that so many people know about O, the Oprah Magazine that it’s really a connection to the kind of people I'm actually looking for as clients and supporters as well. It’s been leveraged in the sense of it’s such a household name and such an amazing magazine. I think it’s probably one of the most inspirational magazines ever created on the planet. Just that mention of it in any social media or PR has been very helpful. I'm just very grateful to be part of it.

If it hasn’t, no worries, but has it actually helped you close a deal or something that maybe was on the fence? People who you deal with, especially for Pets for World Peace, are people who maybe have a lot more influence in the world who can help that movement go forward. Is that something that you needed to leverage or was that getting people involved in Pets for World Peace or having their photographs taken? Was that something you used to close the deal or you didn’t even need to?

I don’t think I needed to. I was just thinking about an amazing client that I photographed recently. He is a vice president at one of the wonderful startup companies here in the San Francisco Bay Area, in the high tech field. What’s great about it is that he went to the Oprah University classes. I did too actually.

Where she has that big stadium full of people, that kind of thing? Is that what you're talking about?

Yes. That kind of thing. That was a really wonderful connection point for even me and my client. He was happy that I was in O Magazine. At the same time, he’s a big O supporter as well.

After it came out in O Magazine did you see any change in your business? Did anybody contact you via phone or was it more just something that was a wonderful accolade on your website?

It’s a wonderful accolade on my website. I think that if I had a product for example, like your friend who had the cookies or whatever, it might be more of a … It’ a difference in the kind of attention one would be getting. Whether it’s a product or service, I believe that they call it the Oprah effect, which is so beautiful. It can just happen in a different way.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

My Amazing Day by Lori Chueng, Karin Fisher-Golton, and Elizabeth Iwamiya

I would love to photograph another children’s book. I actually had the joy of collaborating with two friends, Karin Fisher-Golton and Elizabeth Iwamiya on a children’s book called My Amazing Day. We had an amazing time putting together a crowd-funded successful children’s book. It would be awesome to have a book in Oprah’s Book Club, that would be another dream actually.

I love that. I love the idea of Pets for World Peace being in Oprah’s Book Club as a photography book. I could totally see that. By the way, you gave me that book. I love that book. It was so charming and so lovely. I love that idea. I think it fits in with Oprah’s vision as well, to have a book like that in her magazine, especially since it combines two of her interests too. Obviously, world peace and pets, dogs in particular.

Exactly. I think that if your amazing audience could really study the Oprah Magazine and say, “What kinds of articles are in here and what keeps occurring? What’s the pattern of these articles?” They're going to see a theme of inspiration, of authenticity, of animals, women’s rights. All kinds of amazing topics are shown over and over again. It’s so beautiful. Producing something of great art or quality, like a culinary cookie or whatever it is, it’s about making life the best we can make life and helping others.

I love that. I actually created a free report that we just finished called, The Fifteen Best Places To Be Featured In O Magazine. I went through the whole entire magazine and showed all the places where you can get in and described them. There are even some places for brand new businesses and also for people who have self-published books. It’s not in the review section of the book but there is a section where self-published books can get in. That might be some place where you could get your Pets for World Peace book in for self-published books. There now is a little place for it.

Oh my gosh. Susan, you are so phenomenal. You just did the homework assignment for lots of people.

I did do the homework assignment, yes I did. Distilling all of that down is a big job. It took me a week to go through and look through all my years of magazines to make sure that it was accurate and consistent, and that they were still having all of those different sections in there to make it easier for people. It’s not immediately seen exactly where you could get in. Yes, you do have study the magazine. That is a super great thing to do. There are plenty of people who’ve called me and they’ve never even read an O Magazine and want to get in. When I've had The Ultimate Guide to Getting Booked on Oprah, I can't tell you how many people called me who had never watched Oprah.

You can't really get into a magazine like that, at that high level, if you don’t understand the look, what they're looking for, the look and feel of the magazine and the content of what they're interested in. Everything from wellness and beauty and inner beauty and animals and people’s relationship to animals. There’s a lot of different variety in the magazine but they have their own definite slant that is unlike any other magazine. Whether you get the Fifteen Best Places to Get Into Oprahwhich is free, or not, I still recommend that you study the magazine. Even if you just go to your local library and look through all of the issues.

BAMD0037 | Picture for O Magazine

Take the perfect picture for O Magazine with these tips.

It’s critical. Actually, I would be happy to write up some photography tips for your folks too because it’s so important to have the quality across the board. You know in Oprah that visuals are such … A picture is worth a thousand words. I think Confucius or somebody said that. It’s so true because if the portraits are so dynamic and emotional and powerful, someone will stop on that page and start reading that article. It’s so important to have a balance of great writing, great photography and have it just ready for them to place.

That’s exactly it. Yes, I would love to have you write up those tips. That’s exactly right. If it’s done in the way that Lori says, then it’s ready to place. They don’t have to say, “Could you do these other photographs?” because in the meantime, somebody else may have come in with their beauty ready photographs that fit the bill better. If they need to fool around with you instead of giving them that upfront and then having them make the decision on the spot. “Yes, these are great photographs. They're so great that we don’t even know which one to pick. But we’re for sure going to pick one of them.”

That’s what you want them to say, versus, “I don’t know. These photographs aren’t that great. Maybe we should look at someone else.” That’s the key. If Lori’s photos weren’t up to snuff for the veterinarian, you bet they were going to get another photographer. Since you gave them what you called "Oprah ready photographs," then there’s no thinking, or the decision has already been made.

Make it an easy yes for them.

Is there anything I haven’t asked you about taking the perfect picture for O Magazine that you wanted to add?

I'm thrilled that we’re having this wonderful conversation because I'm guessing that the people that are on this call are wonderful amazing people who have a big vision, that are inspired. They have a flame of inspiration inside that says, “I really have something to contribute to the world and that Oprah would be an amazing person and O Magazine would be the perfect vehicle for what I have to share with the world.” It’s such an honor to be on this wonderful call with you, Susan. I admire you so much.

I admire you too. I just love finding out even more about you. For our audience who’s listening, Lori Cheung is the founder of ThePetPhotographer.com, ThePortraitPhotographer.com, and Pets for World Peace. She does fly all over the world doing portraits of people and their pets. If that’s something that you're interested in, please contact her at ThePetPhotographer.com. They can find you at ThePetPhotographer.com.

Lori does all kinds of philanthropic work. She’s the most amazing connector I think that I've ever met. You have a couple of super powers. You’ve got the photographer super power and you have the connector superpower.

Somebody said I'm from a family of the original LinkedIn kind of person.

That’s right because you run those big groups on LinkedIn too. I don’t know how you have time to do all of these. I'm amazed by your fluidity and fluency in all of these different worlds. Moving in the startup world as well and the philanthropic world. I think those are very intricately connected. I love that you're in both of them. You're in the humanitarian world, I think that’s really wonderful.

Thank you, Susan. I think LinkedIn is an amazing place. Anybody, if you want to reach out to me, I want to help you to get your dream into reality. I know that sometimes people just need to know just one more person to get there.

I'm going to give your LinkedIn address too. It’s LinkedIn.com/in/LoriCheung. People can connect with you in LinkedIn too because that’s a really great place for them to just pop in and ask you for a connection.

Great. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. It’s really been fantastic to have you today to talk about taking the perfect picture for O Magazine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Take care.

About Lori A. Cheung

Lori is the founder of ThePetPhotographer.com and also ThePortraitPhotographer.com. She does both portraits of you and your pet or you by yourself. She’s also the founder of Pets for World Peace. Lori lives in the San Francisco Bay Area. She travels internationally for photo shoots. Wherever you are, you and your pet can have Lori go and have your photograph done. It’s really so unique. Her dynamic and passion in photography honors and celebrates animal’s and people’s legacies through fine art photography. Lori’s celebrity clients include the winners of the Olympic Games, Academy Award, the Grammy Award. She’s been published by the New York Times, in international books by Chronicle Books, one of my favorite publishers, Time Warner Books and others like O Magazine. She has been featured in O, the Oprah Magazine, and aired on Animal Planet. She has the honor of photographing leaders, including: Arianna Huffington, Dr. Jane Goodall, United Nations leaders, Eckhart Tolle, Stedman Graham, Guy Kawasaki, and Tim Ferriss. Lori's award-winning photography captures the essence of pets, people, non-profits, corporate brands, and events (TEDx photographer).

RESOURCES

Get your pet’s photograph taken with you or without you – in a soulful and joyful way.

Get into O Magazine: Ten steps to getting you, your business, book, product, service, or cause featured in Oprah's magazine (Which includes Lori's fantastic photography tips!)

The 15 Best Places For Products, Services & Books To be Featured in O, The Oprah Magazine—Even if you've just started your business or have a self-published book! (It’s free!)

Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


10 Line Tuesday —The Canvas — a Poem by Maya Stein


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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the canvas 

By Guest Blogger Maya Stein

Enough has been said about that blank space, the pause
of possibility pointing to a still-unnamed story. We don’t need
another poem about potential, or the way we bend at the knees
toward the dark tunnel we hope might lead to greatness. Instead,
I want to celebrate the opening mark of the pen, the infant half-inch of paper
glued to the upper right-hand corner. The inaugural dip of a soaked brush
that lays a line of paint down flat. The “yes” that finally tilts the doer
into doing. This poem is for that plucky charge into the gauntlet, the dogged push
through all those voices arrowing critique. This is for the stroke that bursts the bubble
clinging us to fear. The hand that reaches in not for beauty, but for rubble.

About Maya Stein

My first job out of college was at a PR firm whose primary client was Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. In between writing tip sheets and press releases, I found myself immersed in the whimsical world of clowns and daredevil acrobats and dancing elephants, and I began to see the larger connection between the written page and the landscape outside of it. Since then, I have sought out creative adventures to weave into my writing life, and have designed projects that bring writing opportunities to unexpected places.

My 2010 Tour de Word was a two-month, 12,000-mile driving trip circumnavigating 30 states, during which I led writing workshops for children and adults. In early summer 2012, I launched Type Rider: Cycling the Great American Poemriding my bicycle for 40 days and more than 1,200 miles from Amherst, MA to Milwaukee, WI towing a typewriter behind me, stopping daily to gather words from strangers in the communities I visited.

I followed that with Type Rider II: The Tandem Poetry Tour, a tandem bike ride from Boulder, Colorado to Beloit, Wisconsin in July 2014, during which my partner and I built 25 Little Free Libraries and wrote poetry for the people we met along the way.  The motivation behind these and other projects is to inspire people to share their stories, to make writing more accessible – especially to those who don’t consider themselves writers - and to build community through creative action.

RESOURCES

To get a 10 Line Tuesday poem in your inbox every week or take a course go here.

Get great writerly stuff here.

Can't Figure Out Publicity?

How Do I Get Publicity?

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Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


Make Your Sound Bites Steal-able With One-Liners


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Make Your Sound Bites Steal-able With One-Liners

Create steal-able sound bites so your audience remembers them and you. You can make memorable sound bites with one-liners like these.

Today I want to talk about sound bites. First just what they are and then to share with you a couple of really great ones from famous people and also from people who have been in my Your Signature Sound Bites course or who have been my clients.

What are sound bites? Mark Twain weighs in

So what are sound bites first? I love when Mark Twain was asked about what a maximum is. He said: “Define that” and he said it's a minimum of sound to a maximum of sense. So sound bites are really just your key phrases. They're not mysterious, they’re your key phrases, they're fascinating facts, they’re anecdotes, they’re stories, they’re vignettes. They’re stories, statistics, facts, anecdotes, analogies, acronyms.

And you have a mix of these. So it's not like sound bites are your whole conversation, they're woven skillfully into the conversation. But one thing that's really key in a sound bite is that it's packed with meaning and that it is memorable and repeatable. Whether it's a story or a fact or just a one-liner, you want that to be embedded in the memory of the person and also in their hearts so they really feel it.

One of the most famous sound bites is...

So I was just looking over one of my past blog posts and what phrase did I find in there? "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." Muhammad Ali describing himself. He was his own best publicist. So I float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. I mean that was such a great description of what he does in the boxing ring and now we've heard that hundreds of times since he just passed. So that's a really great one liner. So that really sticks in your mind.

The Oxymoron sound bite

Now I want to give you one that's maybe not quite as memorable but that is something that I really loved. And this is by Amos As. So I’m going to take a quick peek over here in my document. I was listening to him, he’s an Israeli author and I heard him speak a while back and he's so passionate, so vibrant and very lovely.

He said, “I thought that my book which is called A Tale of Love and Darkness would only be of interest to people in my village or my vintage. But I found that the more local I was, the more universal my message.”

That's a different kind of sound bite. I mean that's a little bit more intellectual but I really like that phrase in there too “from my village or my vintage.” That's the part that may stick in your mind. And then here's what he said about the sound bite he says “I love Israel in the moments when I don't like it.”

And I love this because this really captures his whole philosophy of loving his land and yet fighting for peace. So it's kind of an oxymoron. Fighting for peace. That’s kind of like in your head like “Whaaat?” So that's what partly makes it memorable. It's kind of a little kooky. You got the two opposing ideas. So that's why I thought that was really powerful.

The light, funny sound bite

And then another one that's on the lighter side for example from my clients who were also in this seminar. Kelly Kitty and Jennifer O'Neil. They’re authors of the book called Decorating with Funky Shui: How to Lighten Up, Loosen Up, and Have Fun Decorating Your Home. Great name right? That's kind of a pun in itself right? A sound bite in itself. They define Funky Shui as less about wind chimes and more about snow globes. So that's their sound bite for describing their book, which you should have by the way. If you're describing your book you do want kind of a one-liner that tells what your book is about.

storytelling tips for media appearances

storytelling tips

And then the sound bite that I loved which was in their romance chapter about your bedroom is “A single white rosebud in a glass vase represents chastity so you don't have to.” Ok so that's funny, it's cute and you definitely get a visual image. So that's what we're talking about sound bites too is that you want a sound bite that gives you a feeling, makes you see something, hear it and remember it.

The analogy sound bite

Then another one is from my client who also took my Your signature sound bites course Marty Friedman. He did private one-on-one coaching with me. He's a successful management consultant of 25 years. And now he's also an expert in men in marriage.

And he says: “The biggest mistake men in marriage make is in relationships because they think of their marriage like a refrigerator. They expect it to run by itself, plug it in and go.” So that kind of sums up in a few words the essential difference between men and women, right? It's not going to plug and play.

chow to create memorable messages

create memorable messages

The alliteration sound bite packed with meaning

And another one liner that a client I came up with Kelli  my god I can't believe I’m forgetting he last name. So when that happens you just need to go on. So she [Kelli Fox] owned Astrology.com and sold it to iVillage for 80 million dollars. And one of the things that we came up with is “astrology is a guide not a god.”

So that was a line that was so good that any host who was introducing her when she was doing a TV show stole. So you want to have these really great lines. Hopefully you don't want the media to steal them because lots of times they do and then you have to come up with another great line because they’ve already taken your best one.

But anyway that's such a great line “astrology is a guide not a god” that it does get stolen. You want to have your sound bites so they're stealable, right? But the point is that even if the journalist doesn't, you want your audience to steal it and take it for their own.

So that's it for some sound bite examples. Those were different examples of one-liners. You had the one from Muhammad Ali that was the one-liner describing himself. The other one from Amos Oz that was a little bit more of his relationship with his country. And then Kitty and her sister Jennifer the O'Neil sisters authors of Funky Shui that was kind of like funny. And then you've got Marty who created a great analogy.

So you've got all of these different types. So you can see the range of sound bites where you have this kind of way that you have to explore and be creative. Have some fun, humor, pathos, whatever that is that will move your audience. So think about those kinds of things that you can weave into the conversation that will be memorable or make people feel.

So I will look forward to connecting to you soon. And if you have a great sound bite please send it to me at mgr@prsecretstore.com I would love to hear your great sound bite. Or just record it into speakpipe right on this page.

RESOURCES

Watch the webinar 5 Ways to Double Your Business With Media Appearances in the Next 90 Days (It’s free!)

Download the 5 awesome tips to prepare you for a TV interview free PDF (It’s free!)

Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on iTunes
Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on Stitcher
Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on Google Play

Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


Why I Can’t Stand The Cult of Fake Authenticity


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Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Why I Can't Stand The Cult of Fake Authenticity

Today I want to talk about something that’s been really bugging me lately. It’s what I’m calling the cult of fake authenticity. It's about how to be authentic. I was having lunch with a friend and we were talking about this whole idea, how there’s this kind of cult of oversharing.

And I wonder if you feel this way too. I would love for you to weigh in about it.

Battered by intimacy

Do you ever feel battered by intimacy? That people share so much and share such hurtful, harmful, hard to hear things that it’s actually hard for you to hold it.

Especially when we’re in groups. I think more and more when people are getting together in groups, this sort of cult of oversharing is being cultivated and being brought to sort of a high level of a kind of expertise. Almost of crafting, like the over crafting that’s going on in social media and Instagram for example.

Cultivating and crafting our own authenticity

It’s as if we’re actually self-appreciating our own authenticity. When you’re: “I’m so real. I’m realer than you are. Can I up how real I am? Can I be realer than you? Can I even share more than you? Can I degrade myself more than you? Can I have a lower low than you?”

There’s this kind of self-admiring that doesn’t feel authentic at all. And it’s not even spontaneous. It starts to become cultivated and crafted and we’re starting to shape our vulnerability in such a way as to make it as dramatic as possible to affect people. And maybe even to one-up another person. Right?

The other thing is, my friend said, “I actually felt reverse shame because I wasn’t a sad drunk.” She is in recovery but she said, “There’s a bizarre sense that my story is worse than your story. Therefore I get even more accolades for having the dirtier, the grungier, the sicker, the lower, the more excruciating story.”

Self Degradation has become glamorous

So it’s kind of a reverse glamour that now this kind of degradation and hardship is actually turning into something that’s polished.

I was reminded of this when I was watching TV and listening to Ronda Rousey talking about that the media had said there was a time when she was homeless and she slept in her car. And she said “You know what? I just want to disabuse you of all of that.”

She said, “My mom and I had a fight. I went and slept in my car for a week. I could have gone home. I was just in my car for a week until I found an apartment. I was not homeless.” So there was even this kind of crafting that the media does of the homeless. The rags-to-riches, the homeless to celebrity status that we’re all I think kind of tired of hearing.

Raise your hand, let me know, are you tired of hearing these degradation to glorification stories? Because I know I am. And I long for real authenticity again. The kind of heartfelt sharing that’s not crafted, that’s not trying to one-up other people. And also that’s reserved for our private friendships.

Fake or real authenticity?

On the other hand, I really realize that there’s a place for sharing and caring in a group. And that that can be very lovely and healing.

But is this fake intimacy (I’m asking, I don’t know, it’s an inquiry) where we’re sharing in a group of people that we don’t know, this can be a deeply bonding experience. Question. Do you keep up with those people? Is that the kind of thing where we can really connect heart to heart and then develop these friendships over time?

Because I see it as kind of a reverse engineered friendship.

Usually a friendship goes along and we develop an intimacy and only when we trust someone do we start to share these deep dark secrets of ourselves. But in our kind of “blabby” culture today, what we’re doing is we get into a group and we skip all the steps that are typical in developing a friendship and go straight to the heart of what hurts most.

So is this a good thing? I’m asking. I’m wondering, what do you think?

I’d love to hear what you think!

RESOURCES

Watch the webinar 5 Ways to Double Your Business With Media Appearances in the Next 90 Days (It’s free!)

Download the 5 awesome tips to prepare you for a TV interview free PDF (It’s free!)

Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on iTunes
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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


10 Line Tuesday —The Winking Heart — a Poem by Maya Stein


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

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Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

the winking heart

By Guest Blogger Maya Stein

For a moment, I thought the muscle had relaxed, lay flaccid

against my bed pillows, consenting to this new embrace.

My lips puckered open. The rain was coming down hard,

wiping the street free and spring was upon us, of course –

that would have been reason enough to say yes to the clean slate

of whatever this was. But the drama on the skylights jolted

everything inside of me, and I felt how quickly my heart

rose from its horizontal idleness, gathered its boots, and bolted

out the door. It knew the risk, returning – the house quiet and alone.

But what can I say? I am more river than rest, more flesh than bone.

About Maya Stein

My first job out of college was at a PR firm whose primary client was Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. In between writing tip sheets and press releases, I found myself immersed in the whimsical world of clowns and daredevil acrobats and dancing elephants, and I began to see the larger connection between the written page and the landscape outside of it. Since then, I have sought out creative adventures to weave into my writing life, and have designed projects that bring writing opportunities to unexpected places.

My 2010 Tour de Word was a two-month, 12,000-mile driving trip circumnavigating 30 states, during which I led writing workshops for children and adults. In early summer 2012, I launched Type Rider: Cycling the Great American Poemriding my bicycle for 40 days and more than 1,200 miles from Amherst, MA to Milwaukee, WI towing a typewriter behind me, stopping daily to gather words from strangers in the communities I visited.

I followed that with Type Rider II: The Tandem Poetry Tour, a tandem bike ride from Boulder, Colorado to Beloit, Wisconsin in July 2014, during which my partner and I built 25 Little Free Libraries and wrote poetry for the people we met along the way.  The motivation behind these and other projects is to inspire people to share their stories, to make writing more accessible – especially to those who don’t consider themselves writers - and to build community through creative action.

RESOURCES

To get a 10 Line Tuesday poem in your inbox every week or take a course go here.

Get great writerly stuff here.

Can't Figure Out Publicity?

How Do I Get Publicity?

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on iTunes
Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on Stitcher
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Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


A Media Training Transition That Can Save Your Skin


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

A Media Training Transition That Can Save Your Skin

This is a media coaching bridge that can save your skin in any situation where you don't want to answer a question or are caught off guard.

Our topic today is something that can be a lifesaver for you in a media interview. It is called a bridge. And what that means is that it is the bridge from the information that you don't want to be asked or a question you don't know the answer to, to the information that you want to convey to your audience and that you can do under any circumstance.

So for example you might be asked a quick difficult question or a question that's off base or that you don't know the answer to or that's completely off topic and you want to transition to the information that you have.

So an example and this is the bridge is “I don't know about that but what I do know is...” So this can be an absolute lifesaver in any circumstance. Because sometimes you might get an aggressive interviewer or an interviewer who is a little too intimate or an interviewer who is just abrasive or abrupt and it might throw you off a little bit. So you can use this transition in any kind of circumstance for any kind of question.

That actually happened to a client of mine just recently Diane Altomare. It was her very first interview about her book called “Clarity.” The interviewer asked her completely off-the-wall questions that were not related at all to the content of the book and even recommended a book about her competitors that was in the past. And start talking about that “Oh my god it's like a worst nightmare.” And this was her very first interview.

But since she had been trained very well on creating sound bites and transitioning to the information, she knew she could use that one bridge “I don't know about that but what I do know is.”

So it doesn't matter how off base or how nut ball the question is you can always use that phrase to transition to the information that you want your audience to know. Because that is your whole purpose of doing the interview, so you can convey the information to your audience that you want them to know under any circumstances no matter how crazy the question, no matter how abrasive, aggressive, intimate, whatever the personality of the TV host or radio host is. It doesn't matter. Your transition is “I don't know about that but what I do know is.”

So use that and I would love to hear how it saved your skin because I have a lot of clients and course participants who tell me how that one phrase did save their skin and I'd love to hear about yours.

RESOURCES

Watch the webinar Speak in Sound bites: 5 Surefire Ways to Get More Clients, Customers + Sales — and Become a Media Darling  (It’s free!)

Download the 5 awesome tips to prepare you for a TV interview free PDF (It’s free!)

Media Training Tips for CEOs

Media Training Tips for Entrepreneurs, Authors, Coaches, Consultants, CEOs

Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Susan Harrow Podcast

I'm here to give you everything you need to get you ready for the media spotlight so you can live the life you dream of. Let’s begin together with the Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul Membership Club to get you set for your time to shine.

Subscribe to Podcast

Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on iTunes
Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on Stitcher
Subscribe to Be A Media Darling Podcast on Google Play

Podcast Reviews
  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

  • Invigorate Your Message!
    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

  • Excited!
    August 24, 2016 by Delia McCabe from Australia

    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

  • Susan makes publicity doable, authentic, + fun! !
    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

Search Podcasts

 


Get 90% Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs with Tommi Wolfe


Are you enjoying the Podcast? Then I invite you to hop on over to iTunes to subscribe, rate + review it. Here’s a quick video on how to do a podcast review on iTunes. (It’s simple if you follow these directions). Note: It can take up to 24 hours to show up on my Podcast. You're welcome to send this to anyone you think it would delight. May good fortune always follow you!

Want to know how to subscribe on your phone? Watch this video.

Want to be a guest on my Podcast? Jet me an email with your topic and a link to your bio here.

Send Susan a Voice Message!

Click below to send me your voice message with a question or topic you’d like to hear more about in my upcoming podcasts! I will answer the most pressing and popular ones in a future episode. (I’ll mention your first name ONLY to protect your privacy.)

Get 90% Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs with Tommi Wolfe

Our topic today is How to Get 90% Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs, whether you’re an introvert or an extrovert, it works for both. My guest today, who I’m thrilled to have on, is Tommi Wolfe and she’s CEO of Top 6 Business Coach. She runs an international network of passionate, talented entrepreneurial Top 6 Coaches. She and her coaches are on a mission to make the lives of one man businesses more abundant, fulfilling, and impactful. Clients hire Top 6 Business Coaches for their no nonsense, tell it like it really is, systematic approach to helping clients create sustainable, lucrative businesses.

Tommi is also actively searching for talented entrepreneurs like you to join her rapidly expanding global coaching network. We’re going to talk a little bit about that too. I want to give you her website so you can hop on over there ASAP, which is Top6BusinessCoach.com. Also, one of the things that you can get right away is her powerful eBook, which is 8 Crucial Errors that Trap Talented Business Coaches in 5 Figures. That’s http://top6businesscoach.com/8errors-Susan

That’s sounds really great because I think a lot of people, even if you’re not at five figures yet, this is still a great lesson to get to six figures. Don’t be intimidated by that even if you’re not at five figures yet.

I invited Tommi on, I just met her the other day and just … What is it called? A girl crush. I have a girl crush on Tommi because she’s just so charming and amazing. I wanted to have her on because she has done something that I think a lot of people want to do, which is license their programs. We’re going to talk a little bit about how she created a program that was licensable in such a way that it becomes in demand and that you can do it in such a way that’s in integrity with yourself and really make a great living and do this kind of publicity that feels really good.

One of the things that I wanted to know about is part of the process that you went through to create and license your coaching program.

Thank you, Susan and thank you for spending this time with me. It’s a topic I'm obviously passionate because I spent a lot of time building our license program. I’d most love to tell you right about now that I started with the end in mind and I’ve always planned to do it but nothing could be farther from the truth, really. It was serendipity that helped along the way.

I had been a business coach for many years and I was one of the lucky business coaches. I did really well. What I noticed in my programs, and I wasn’t very happy about this, is I had a lot of business coaches join my program and come and copy everything I was doing and then go out in the world and do very well. I’m happy for them and they were my clients. I’m happy they’re doing well, but don’t really like that all my good stuffs been copied.

I’m a quick learner. I decided, "Gosh, if this is really the people that are doing amazing in my program, why don’t I make it easy for them and legal for them to really take what I have?" That was really what inspired me to actually take everything I’ve learned to date and then help others become me, basically.

That’s hilarious. It’s hilarious and horrible at the same time. If you have something that people are copying, you may be ready to start licensing your programs because it means people want it. I love that you took that as a compliment instead of ran out and tried to sue them all. You’re like, “Why don’t I just give you a legal way to do this? Here’s how it is.”

BAMD0030 | Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs

Tommi Wolfe shares her tips on getting enrollment in your licensed programs.

Explain a little bit to people who don’t know what exactly licensing is and how it works and how that works with getting enrollment in your licensed programs.

I’ve learned a lot about licensing in the process. Along the way, I've become a bit of a licensing expert as well. I think that you should seriously consider licensing anytime you have got a technique or a product or a set of procedures or a method that is reliably producing $100,000 or more for somebody. If you know how to help somebody make a six-figure income or more, it could be seven or more. That really is something that you might look at licensing because it’s very lucrative for others and it’s a very lucrative business model for the person that actually licenses.

It is hard to sell things. It’s not really worth licensing unless it’s going to be something that’s pretty appealing to the people that you’re offering it to. Basically licensing, the easiest way I can explain it is to compare to franchising. It’s not franchising. I’ll tell you what the difference is. Everybody knows franchises.

If I say McDonalds or Starbucks, you know that they’ve brought a pretty reliable set of processes and products and sales techniques and floor layout and real estate guidelines that they can give you that’ll make you pretty sure that your McDonalds or your Starbucks is going to be pretty successful. Franchising is something people are familiar with. I would say, just think McDonalds.

Licensing is very different to franchising. I love it. It’s got a couple of key differences. Licensing doesn’t mandate that the people you sell the license to have to do everything your way. It allows them to have their own flexibility on top of it. It allows them to use it in their own way.

Basically, you sell a platform where you have put together a norm, business in a box, if you like. You’ve got the sales method, you’ve got the content itself, you’ve got the training on how to use it. People would buy it to remove risk from their own business. Clearly, all of us are entrepreneurs, Susan. When we started, we took on so much risk, right?

Yeah.

The whole point of licensing is don’t take on all that risk. Let somebody else figure out things the hard way, like Susan and I did. We did and we paid in blood and sweat and tears for that. That’s the main reason to buy both a franchise and a license, but they have a couple of differences. The license is much more flexible. Usually, vastly more affordable as well. The expense of licenses for brands like McDonalds are going to be very expensive. They're not going to be in the tens of thousands. They're going to be in the multiple hundreds of thousands.

A licensing a program is different than franchising because you give people all of these different methodologies that are proven. Everything from, you said, sales, content, training on how to use it, so they don’t have to take the risk. Because it’s proven. It’s something that’s already made you or someone else hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s a proven methodology.

They can put their own spin on it. They can put their own personality on it. It’s your proven methodology but they can then make it their own and do that in such a way that’s proven. I know you’ve told me a little bit, when we were just talking casually, about your program. I’d like our audience to know how much a program usually runs for. You were telling me about how it works for you behind the scenes.

I’d love, if you wouldn’t mind, outlining some of that. What are some of the things that people will learn and the things that you’ve already done for them, like the sales process? I’ll get into just a few minutes about how you actually publicized that and get people into your programs and even get trainers to train your programs.

I think what we’ve put into our license really comprises of about three things. When I started licensing, I thought it was only one but I realized we were now putting these three major things that we give our license clients.

First and foremost, one of the reasons I was a good business coach is because I had put together a very comprehensive curriculum that was perfect for my clients. Some people love making curriculums, some people hate it. I happen to be very good at it. This is right in my zone of genius. Nonetheless, it was hard, hard work and it took me a long time to come up with a really good curriculum.

You will know this Susan, but most people who create curriculum do it all wrong. They create a curriculum in a vacuum. They don’t have a lot of clients yet. They then go and sell just completely the wrong thing. That’s why most offerings go down the tubes. I think the reason mine worked well is because we really developed it slowly.

I started off doing a lot of one-on-one coaching. I could see up close and personal, here’s what my clients were struggling with. There’s a lot of care put into our curriculum. My market, by the way, is one- man businesses. That’s who we coach, who I coach. One-man services, businesses was our market. We put together an extraordinary good curriculum.

We figured I’d have to deliver it because we could technically deliver the curriculum in three weeks if we had to. What we realized is our clients absolutely can't implement it that fast. They need more like a year. We actually ran the curriculum over a year.

The first thing that I’ve put into my license box … To everybody listening, just imagine a great big box and we’re building our license. The first thing we put in was our curriculum. That was ten great modules of content that had an online component as well, that we were already running.

Also, the how to deliver this. The how to has ended up being huge, because I made a lot of mistakes, honestly. There were lots of things I’ve tried that didn’t work and the things that did work are really what we put into the box. The how to, we estimate that we save the average business coach about five years of hard lessons.

We teach them everything. It took us five years to learn. We teach them that in a year, which is a huge business benefit. You think how much time you waste going down a road with holes and trying to just figure things out.

I think that’s really great. I remember hearing Frank Kern, the famous Internet marketer saying, “The only thing that you need to be a consultant or a coach is to be one step ahead of the people that you’re coaching.” You’ve got something licensing. Now, you are five years ahead which provides way more value than just being one step ahead.

What’s quite interesting is we’ve watched our coaches. Because there are gazillion business coaches. We’ve just come back from actually running an event in Atlanta and I just happen to have his number in my head because we researched that there almost 2,000 business coaches in Atlanta. That’s a lot. That’s going to be your competition. But because the coaches that we now have in Atlanta have bought a licensed program, they automatically at least step into the top 6% that actually would have A, lasted five years and B, done well over those five years.

They start off with a lot more than they would have otherwise. That’s the advantage of a license. You start off in a mature seasoned place with all the bugs and problems worked out. It may be interesting to share with you as an example here, one of the big problems that I worked out.

I'd love to hear them. Then we’ll go on to two on three, because you said three major things. Yes, I’d love to hear the problems.

Where’s still on number one curriculum. They always say pride comes before a fall. Unfortunately, that’s true in my case.

I’m sorry to hear it.

I remember I was running a live event and we were trying to sell coaching programs. The first year, I was so proud of myself. I was hoping to have my first six-figure year. I wanted to sell six figures from the stage, because you always hear about this in the market. I was really hoping to have $100,000 worth of sales. On the third day, I ran to the bathroom during an exercise. I actually met my mom in the bathroom. I always used to have her work the back tables for me.

You had your mom work the back tables? Get out.

This is in the days where I didn’t have staff yet. My mom was about the best person I had to trust. I passed her in the bathroom and I said to her, “How are we doing on sales?” Because they come in on the last day. She said, “We just passed a quarter of a million.” I remember having this amazing … all the blood rushed out to my head. I came back in. I've got this cute little picture I sometimes share of me walking back on stage feeling like the hottest woman on the planet.

I was so proud of myself. It was my pride moments. The fall came the next year because what I didn’t know at the time is I had massively oversold private coaching. I put in so many hours of private coaching into the package that I was selling, that my next year I took a huge income dive and I had to work like crazy woman herself to actually deliver everything I sold. These are like real life bugs. The next year, my income took a big dip. What do you think it did to my programming? I immediately changed it so that I would never, ever, ever have that problem again.

These are the kinds of issues that you can remove when you license something. People are going to walk into the same trap I did. You don’t realize how quickly one on one coaching becomes absolutely undeliverable. We fixed that problem in the license box. That’s what I mean by ironing up problems. Good curriculum and how to deliver it. That’s thing one in the box.

Really what you’re saying, this was so exciting and you were having a big income boost but it was all dependent on you delivering the one-on-one coaching. What you’re talking about is how to deliver programs and group coaching to other people and to do it in such a way that it’s simple and you’re not spending all of your time on one-on-one.

BAMD0030 | Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs

Gain enrollment in your licensed programs through a comprehensive curriculum.

You’ve got number one is the comprehensive curriculum. What’s number two?

Number two is actually how do you sell whatever it is that you’re licensing. I sold business coaching and being the person I am, I tried everything. I tried absolutely everything. We always teach, there are about 20 methods that are working pretty well right now in the industry. We got over 90% of our clients from four methods. That has value. Most people would love to know what those four methods are.

Yes. I was just going to ask you, can you tell me? You probably won’t.

No, I will. I think we’re going to talk about at least two of them today. That’ll get you a long way down the road, Susan. That obviously has value when you license, is you can actually show people this is what worked for me. Because they probably don’t want to spend the time and money on all 20. They probably would want to use just the four. That’s the other thing in the box is, how do you actually sell this thing?

The last thing in the box is we put together amazing training. I did not know I would have to do this when I licensed but I figured it out fast enough. We put together amazing training for our licensees on how do you actually use the license system so that you really, really can accelerate your business forward five years in about a year. The training is also invaluable. That’s probably some of the best work I’ve ever done because it came late in my career. You know what’s also been amazing about the training, Susan?

Tell me.

I’ve always had clients, but with my licensees, we’re partnered financially. If they do well, I do well. What I particularly love about the training I provided my licensees is that it’s really in my best interest to do an extraordinarily good job of training them because I will gain if they do well. I’ve never had that situation in a business before where I literally gain financially when my clients do well. It’s a very healthy way to work.

I think it’s really nice and very ethical, because there are so many programs out there where the person who’s created the program does really well but it’s not duplicable. What you’re talking about is it’s duplicable. You make it duplicable and you only profit when someone has understood that and really been able to carry out what you’ve trained them for.

I think people would be curious about, if you don’t mind talking about the financial commitment. If you do, no worries. I think people would like to know what’s involved in that and then what they would need to do to be successful. We’ll talk about how to actually promote a program once you’ve created that.

Obviously, I’ve got a pretty guaranteed method of helping people get in to multiple six figures.

It’s just to position everything. We would expect our business coaches to make $149,000 as the average in year one. We would expect, within a three to four year period, depending on how motivated they are, they’d be running a $350 to $500k business. That’s really what our expectations are.

What they would put it in, in terms of licensing fees, is it’s the greater of … Just remember, it’s the greater of $24,000 a year or 20% of their revenue. It has a minimum amount. I’m not giving anybody my life’s work for less than that. For the 20%, many of them who do really well are going to actually end up paying quite a bit more than that. I know for a fact they’re really happy to because we have those coaches with us today.

That’s wonderful to get enrollment in your licensed programs. They pay a minimum of the $2,000 a month. If they do better, the faster they do better, the more they pay you and the better they’re doing so they’re happy to do that because they’re doing so well.

Let’s imagine someone started their enrollment in your licensed programs with you and in their first year, they do the $100,000 and then they go up. How long do they typically stay in the program so you continue to get that income?

I don’t know if there’s a simple answer because I've only been doing it for a couple of years now. I have my original coaches coming back for their third year. I know that much. We’ve got a 83% return rate, which I’m beyond proud of.

They know my worth at this point. There’s no surprises. They’ve been on the program, they know what we are, what we stand for, what we’ve got, but they still come back. That’s actually one of my huge success metrics, is how many people are coming back. I would love to think that these amazing people who are back, all my coaches would stay with me forever.

My goal is to provide such value that they wouldn’t think of leaving. In some ways, I almost feel like we’re a family. We just get close. It’s a different situation that you’re having clients that you're financially invested with.

How have you gotten them to stay for three years? Because once they’ve gone through the program, what else do they need from you? Let’s say they’ve gone through the year.

That’s a good question. There are a couple of things that happen in the second year. First of all, they love the program and they don’t want to have to go and develop their own because developing curriculum is hard work. Many of our coaches just don’t want to do that.

I think more importantly, in their second year we give them advanced curriculum. They can keep their clients and take them into a more advanced level. We also share some very advanced content and techniques, like how to run live events. We just know that that’s amazing for getting coaching clients. I literally give them the stuff that took me years to put together when I ran events.

The last thing we do for them from year two onwards, assuming they’re doing well, is we allow them to bring in their own coaches. They can sublicense. It’s just a ridiculously good model. What I love is it’s a win for everybody. There’s that little sweet spot, Susan, where I win because I’m expanding. My coaches win because they just set up a business way faster than any business coach could on their own. Their clients win because they get a coach that has amazing resources and knowledge and skills straight out the gate. Everybody wins.

BAMD0030 | Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs

Sublicensing is an incentive to get enrollment in your licensed programs.

What I particularly love is the sublicensing. Can I tell you a story? It might help people see why sublicensing is so good.

I would love to hear it. I really want to understand it too, how that works. Yes, I’d love to hear your story.

I have an amazing man in my life now but I didn’t always in my grown up dating years, which you probably don’t want to hear about in the podcast. One of the men I dated when I was a business coach was a financial advisor. We were out on a date and he was telling me about his business model. He said to me, “As long as I don’t screw anything up too badly for my clients, they just stay with me. Their portfolios are growing and growing and growing. Every year, I get more and more money from those clients. I just got to look after them well. Each year, I just add new clients.”

I remember thinking, "Man, that’s good because I’m losing my time so I’m going out and working my buns off to go find a whole new set of clients." It was actually somewhere between that date, and there were various other things that happened in the universe, our mutual friend Nancy Juetten connected me with somebody. I realized how incredibly powerful the model is where you don’t have to keep going and getting clients every year.

One of the main reasons I wanted to license was so that I could keep people. I work hard for my coaches. I’m a really good business partner for them. So far, they do want to keep me around at least three years. We’ll see how long I can keep that going. I can see the value we provide them. It would cost them more than what they’re paying to do it themselves. I can leverage across. We now have 21 coaches, I think. I can leverage at my cost across all of them. It’s cheaper for me to do for them than for them to go and do it on their own. It’s a beautiful win-win situation. I love it.

Coming back to the sublicensing, is what I give my coaches in year two is the ability to sublicense themselves so they can go and recruit coaches and bring them in and provide the customer service. It allows them that repeating revenue model, which is hard to find in coaching.

What they do when you say they sublicense, the coach can’t then license your material to them, what she’s training or he’s training, without giving you a piece of it. It’s like they’ve learned your methodology but they can’t just go and start training other coaches and keep them all to themselves because you created the original program.

Right. What happens is, I split it down the middle with my coaches. I still handle all the training of their coaches. They just do the customer support. I don’t want to talk to their coaches but I will train them. It’s still like a partnership where the training is comprehensive. They probably don’t want to do it. They probably don’t have time to get on top of all of that. It’s still an amazing win-win.

I think some of my more mature coaches at this point, that’s all they’d like to do. They’re like, “Forget about the business coaching. I’ve done it a couple of years. Right now, I’m just going to concentrate on giving it to coaches.”

Part of the business model too is when you said you want to keep them, is you're developing new things to make it easier and easier for them, or giving them more advanced techniques so they will stay with you. So they can increase and hone their skills and then they can develop their own programs or bring someone into yours.

Exactly. So far, my coaches really, they don’t really spend a lot of time developing their own programs.  Our program is good enough. Their fastest income comes from going out, finding clients and delivering it. The system itself is beautiful already.

I just want to say, this can work for any industry. We’re talking about coaches now because that’s Tommi’s area of expertise. If you are a coach, you can find out if you have what it takes to become a high earner business coach at BusinessCoachQuiz.com. As Tommi and I were talking, if you would like to get into her program, that is Top6BusinessCoach.com/sh. If you want to opt in to find out about The 8 Crucial Errors That Trap Talented Business Coaches In 5 Figures, that’s http://top6businesscoach.com/8errors-Susan.

The other thing I wanted to know is, everybody always wants to know about promoting their programs. You spent all of the time developing your programs. You’ve got the curriculum, you have how to sell what you’re licensing, the 20 methods, and then the four methods that 90% of your business comes in because of those four methods, and then the training for licensees and how you partner with them financially so they can accelerate their business in one year in what would ordinarily take five.

You were talking about how to run live events, which is something that’s been super successful for you to getting their own coaches to sublicense. I’d love to hear about that. How do you run live events and how do you then recruit coaches for your program?

It’s interesting because I think, like so many entrepreneurs, I don’t love sales. I just don’t. Although I think I’ve got good people skills and I'm relatively articulate, and people are usually surprised when I say this, I am introverted. I’m fine going out but I need my space and I like to be alone and that’s how I recharge. Endless networking and things like that are exhausting for me. I, very rapidly in my early days as a coach, figured out that wasn’t going to be how I got clients. It just took too much out of me.

The other thing that I deeply passionately believe is that, and I know this is very much what you stand for Susan, is you don’t believe in the slick salesperson at all. You really want to be able to sell in a way that feels comfortable and ethical and gels with your own sense of who you are.

Absolutely. There are very few people who say that they love selling. Most people are not comfortable tooting their own horn or even creating their offers, whether it’s publicity or selling. I think that skill, as much as there’s tons of courses and everything out, I still think that is innate, especially for introverts, that they don’t want to do it. But you’re an introvert who speaks. How does that work?

I do speak. My core belief is I have no identity as salesperson. If somebody said I was in sales, I would argue with them. But I’ve run three companies now so clearly I can sell. My core belief is that relationships trump sales every time. People are people. It’s in our DNA. We’re wired to deal with people, we’re wired to be able to look in someone’s eyes and stop selling and start building real meaningful relationships with people who you can really help.

Having said that, I don’t want to spend the time as an introvert, going out networking and then doing it the slow way. I needed something that was a little bit faster, a fast way to build relationships. In my head, there’s absolutely no doubt at all that being able to get yourself on to stage, whether it’s a three day event or a 30 minute talk. It’s just a continuum of how much time you did.

In terms of building relationships, you think about it, you come out, you're the expert. You have all the know, like, trust, credibility. It is almost given to you before you open your mouth. Everybody’s going to shut up and listen to you for however long. I just love being able to stand in front of audiences simply because it builds relationships so easily and well, especially for me as an introvert. It allows me a little bit of space. Somehow it’s easier for me to stand on stage for a couple of hours than it is for me to go network for a couple of hours because it’s just a little bit of distance.

Interesting perspective.

I feel like I’m probably not the only person telling you that high priced offerings, and I think a $24k minimum probably falls into a high priced offering category. I don’t know anybody who’s selling high priced offerings fast or in bulk or easily that isn't actually getting themselves out speaking or running live events. They're all amazing.

One of the things that you’re saying is that speaking on stage gives you that credibility of the know, like, trust. Also, it gives you a little bit of distance. As an introvert, the one-on-one at a networking event is much slower and more laborious, where you’ve already got all of that speaking from the stage. Do you make your offer from the stage? Are you selling it right then and there from the stage?

I have and it works. I don’t usually do that anymore, Susan. The event I was mentioning earlier where we sold a quarter million, yes, we absolutely made an offer from stage. There’s advice I can give people on how and when to do it. It’s a function of how much time you have on stage because it’s really just a question of people getting to feel like they know you, have enough time to feel like they know your heart and they can see that you’re credible and you’ve had enough time to demonstrate all of that. Sure, you can go ahead and make an offer from the stage.

If you have an event where you have a one hour talk or half an hour talk, I’d never dream of doing something at that price point. If I’ve been on stage for two or three days, I definitely could. Interestingly enough, I don’t. The reason why is because I’ve become really fuzzy about who becomes a coach, who I want my license with. Because it’s such an intimate arrangement in a way and there’s branding considerations. I would actually really like to meet these people and have a chance to interview them. Not the other way around, if that makes sense.

How does that work? You speak from the stage but you’re not necessarily selling, but they know that you’ve got a program so then they come up to you afterwards and you start to determine if you’re a good fit? Do you have a structured interview process, or is it more casual? When you’re meeting someone, you can tell if they’re right for your program or not?

It’s pretty structured and we’re pretty fuzzy about it. Because to me, there’s a big difference between speaking and a one to three day event. Let’s assume I've had one to three days. At that point, I feel like I’ve had enough time to really be able to demonstrate what I do and I feel like they’ve had enough time to get to know me. At that point, I would actually show them what our program is and I would really just say to them, “Guys, if you feel this is right for you, I would love to talk with you. You can go and find Sam at the back of the room. He’s got a little signup sheet. We’re going to be in town for the next two days. I'd open up my calendar. I’d love to meet with you privately. Here’s the hotel lobby where I’ll meet you, etc. Go and sign up for your slots. There’s only eight of them or whatever.”

We've just found that having the signup sheet right there at the event is very effective for actually getting people to do it quickly. I would rather do that so we can get a chance to sit down with them. My days of selling something to somebody where it’s not right for them or me are just over a long time ago. I really want to make sure that A, they’re a good fit and they're right and B, that I want them in the program and we’re all going to work together. I actually want to meet them afterwards.

What you're saying is that if you’re doing a longer event, that people really get a feel for you and they know how you teach and they get a sense of the content of what you would be teaching. They have a pretty good idea of you, if they want to be in a relationship with you. You can tell whether they’re the right person for your program too because you’ve now got a profile of a successful coach, I imagine.

Correct. One thing I want to add about this one to three days, I also feel like there’s a whole bunch of people in the audience that will not want to walk forward with you. That’s fine too, by the way, because this isn’t for everybody. I’m really fuzzy about the fact that they're going to get amazing content, the time they spend with you will be really worth their while. I really hate the pitch fest where everyone’s, “Oh, it’s a complete waste of time,” and everybody feels like it wasn’t what they wanted and the day was a waste.

We’re very careful when we do run events, to give our amazing content. Whether or not you want to work with us, that the event was just really, really well worth your while. I just feel like that’s an integrity thing for the people that are there. These days, it’s not what you paid to be at the event but I’m busy enough and I'm giving up two days of my life for somebody. It’s a huge gift to them. That’ll be worth my while. I think that’s an important point to just add.

Of course. I had assumed that for you, about not being pitch fest, that you’re there really delivering amazing content and to not be discouraged if it’s not right for someone because you have no idea where they are in that process or what they came for. They may have gotten exactly what they came for. They may be not right for you, right?

Exactly.

If it does sound like this is something that you’re interested in, that Tommi is right for you, because you can hear her style and you can tell what kind of person she is, then I would encourage you to go to Top6BusinessCoach.com/sh, which is Tommi’s website. Also, you can get her powerful eBook 8 Crucial Errors That Trap Talented Business Coaches In 5 Figures

Now, we’ve talked about what a licensing program is, what’s it comprised of, one of the ways to promote it. You were going to share one other way that gives you over the 90% of your coaches. Speaking at events is one. If you would share the other one. Then you were going to keep two of them secret.

No. I’m really happy to share them, quite honestly, I don't want to keep them secret. The secret is always in how do you actually do them. It’s not in what they are.

Yes, that’s true.

One of them is running live events. Generally, [most of] the time the events are the speaking events." One to three days is great. Three days is easier than one day just because people have time to get to know you.

The other big method is just speaking, getting out there and speaking. The funny thing is that with speaking, we generally don’t make them up. This is the easiest way to speak. Generally, you get the 30, 40, 60 minutes on somebody else’s stage. It’s a great way for getting out to a lot of other audiences. Because bear in mind, when we have events we have to fill them. It’s generally an audience that we’ve already got some connection with. When you’re speaking, you can stand on other people’s stages and so your reach becomes much higher. That’s just powerful.

We generally wouldn’t go into the product or what we’re licensing in the talk because it’s usually just too little time for the price point we’re working at. What I would often do at those live talks, I just sell an event ticket to our live events or we will go straight into private meetings with us.

While you’re speaking, you’ll either sell a ticket into the private one to three day event?

Yes. If we don’t have an event coming up soon, then we’ll just offer for them to meet with us directly. I would do either/or, never both at the same time.

I see. It’s a choice of the event or to have a private consult with you right then and there when they’re at the conference.

I never do it at the conference, honestly because I’m too busy. We normally just clear the next days’ worth of calendar. What’s really working for us well right now is to have a sign-up sheet at the back of the room. I have my staff, people literally go and say, “Yup, I’m free for breakfast or I’m free at [4:00],” and they sign up and they just give us their name and email and we’ll call in the next day. The things just set up on the moment.

I see. Your coaches or you are either meeting them in person at another day of that particular conference or another time on the phone?

Exactly. I prefer face-to-face just because it’s always more powerful than phone and remote. I often, if I’m traveling, I’ll say, “I’m in town tomorrow. Let’s meet.” Otherwise, I’ll do it on the phone next week or something like that.

Do you find it’s a different close rate when you’re on the phone than it is in person for a program such as yours?

That’s a good question. I've never been asked that before, Susan. That’s a good question. I don’t find a difference when I’m sitting down and had a chance to meet me and look me in the eye and get to know me. I don’t see a difference whether we’re on the phone or live. I’ll tell you where I see massive difference. I don’t know if people in the industry want to hear this, they probably don’t.

Me standing live on a stage in front of a hundred people has a three to four times higher conversion rate than me on a webinar with a hundred people. It’s hard to understand because I definitely put my webcam on. I just think there’s something about human beings and the way we’re wired. I just often notice that it’s much easier for me to get clients in the flesh. None of us want this because we want to be able to be behind our PCs where it feels a bit safer, but being in the flesh really makes a difference.

It’s really a difference in the energy I think, in the energetic. Even though you’re on a webinar and you feel close, it’s not the same thing as being in an audience with a lot of other people responding and feeling and getting the sense of you, I don’t think.

I sometimes wonder if it’s maybe a proof of … Social proof is one of the reasons people make decisions. I think watching a whole bunch of other people loving what you’ve got and raving about you actually provides a bunch of social proof that might be missing on a webinar. I don’t really know what to do. I haven’t really studied it. I have noticed the three times less sales because you’re on a webinar. That’s a big jump.

That is a big jump. That’s an important point. I’m wondering, do you do any promotion or publicity online for this as well?

I’m probably going to be totally zigging what everybody else is zagging here. You don’t know a lot about my coaching program Susan, but we are known for being live, local, and lucrative. This is one of the things I give my coaches, is they get to be the superstar in their own backyard where it’s super easy to get clients. I started off like every other entrepreneur today. I was marketing on the Internet like crazy. I was in my backyard in Boulder, Colorado. I actually ran two programs, a live one and a virtual one.

There was this moment where I was doing the 80-20 Percentage principle exercise of my business like any good business coach would from time to time. I counted up where my clients were coming from. I was shocked to realize that I had 84 local clients for every sixteen I was getting online. Now, the 80-20 rule would tell you to stop doing the thing that’s giving you the sixteen entirely. I never stopped doing the online thing, but it really just shook me up a little bit. If there’s that much low hanging fruit in my backyard, I need to go and pick that fruit and get really, really good at it because it was quick and easy and fast and inexpensive. Honestly, ten times the fun even for an introvert.

When we start our coaches, one of our little secret sauces here is we start them in their own backyards. Because it’s quick and easy for them to go and get into six figures that way. Once they’ve got everything sorted out and they’re running and they’re making money, absolutely go and expand online. It’s a really good idea. I question whether it’s the smartest way to start.

I’ve had so many entrepreneurial friends start online and our 8 Errors document, which I think you’ve given them the resource code for, 8 Errors That Trap Coaches. One of those eight errors is whether they get started online too soon. I go to a very fascinating little numbers expose where I show them the math. You're somebody who’s got a huge list, but I can’t believe how many entrepreneurs have got 400 people on their list. They’re trying to get them to come to webinars and do promotions and write complex auto-responders. That’s a complete waste of time if you don’t have a substantial list like you do.

I started offline because I was teaching at the Learning Annex. I had a little piece of paper where I would have people write down their name and email address. At first, it was me inputting all of that into my computer. They didn’t even have those automated card things yet where you could scan a card or anything. That wasn’t invented yet. I did it by hand or then I faxed it to my assistant who had to enter it in by hand in the beginning. That’s how it started was, like you said, in person training in my own backyard at the Learning Annex. I was speaking to local authors, at the Author’s Guild or ASJA.

Thank you Susan, for sharing that, because now you’re a big name online and everybody knows that. But it’s not really where people start. It’s where they finish. I think that people forget that when you’re starting a business. I think there’s huge value in being able to go and look your potential client in the eye and do your elevator speech and watch them show zero interest. Because it’s very hard to mimic that online and get that same feedback.

BAMD0030 | Enrollment in Your Licensed Programs

Cooperative networking and media appearances can help gain enrollment in your licensed programs.

I think that’s really true. By the way, I started with coaches, speaking at the International Coach Federation (ICF). Also Local Coaches Organization invited me to speak. They already had the audience so I didn’t have to draw the audience, and same with the Learning Annex. Which is I think a kinder way to start, where people already have an audience invite you, whether it’s an organization or a federation like the International Coaches Federation, or a teaching facility or whatever, that can bring in those students and do that publicity for you. I know that doing a big live event for your own, you do have to have some power to recruit or some strategies to get people into the room.

You do. It’s one of the things people do wrong, is they try and run live events before their footprint’s big enough. If anybody listening, please don’t do that. You have to get to a certain size before you have any hope of being able to fill your events. If you can’t fill the free ones, you probably can’t fill the paid ones either. Use that as a guide. You do have to be a certain size and footprint before you’ll get that technique right.

I think there’s other ways to do it. I don’t know if you ever done this, but I know that some of my very successful motivational speaking clients have used a radio tour or where they’re going to be in a certain city to help fill the free event that then goes to the paid event. They do that per city. They had a night where it would be a couple of hour’s free event and then that free event is, like you said, they give very valuable information. Then they’re offering the paid event from that free event that may happen either the next day or a month from now when they may be back in that city.

That’s a perfect way to do it, is go from free-to-paid. We’ve actually spoken a little bit about that. When I’m speaking on somebody else’s stage for free, we give amazing, because our secret is always give amazing content. Be amazing, because that’s very enticing to people. At that point, we’ve earned the right to sell them something, a ticket. I love the model of free-to-paid.

Going directly to paid, in many ways, it’s just greedy. It’s not allowing people a chance to get to know you so people are just going too fast. I remembered what I was going to say to you. One of the challenges I've had since I used to run in the backyard is I’m now looking for coaches all over the globe. I’m having to learn to sell out of state, which has been different for us. Yes, we’ve definitely been yanking some of those different levers. I haven’t used the radio ads but I think I’ll try it.

No, they’re not ads. They weren’t ads. It’s just radio appearances.

Radio appearances, okay. I've got it. I understand that.

You’re just doing publicity radio and local TV in that place where you are. You set that up ahead of time and then you can promote your event while you’re there. Same day, typically.

I should probably consult with you. You could probably teach me so much about that, I’m sure. Really, what we have done similarly is we’ve had to go and do a couple of things that we don’t do in our own backyard. This is the third technique that’s one of our top four, is we do go and meet the strategic alliances and movers and shakers really in each town we’re going to. We’ll go and find the best connected people, the people that are best connected with our audience and we’ll tend and befriend. Those are relationships we really want to nurture. We want to figure out what we can do for them, etc. When we build those well, then they’ll be able to help us run successful events in those towns.

You said tend and befriend. That’s such a nice phrase.

I just feel like with strategic alliance, my definition of them is somebody who has a huge access to your audience. Our only motivation with them is to actually befriend them, to try and form deep friendships. I always have a rule. You never sell to these people. You always look forward to what you can do to help them. The human nature is to reciprocate.

That’s such a nice thing. You’re offering the deep friendship and you’re offering something first before you ask them for anything. But you’re not doing it as a strategy, you’re doing it as a real relationship builder, which I think is the difference in intention. There’s some people who just want the strategic alliances so they can sell.

You’re saying that you’re really tending and befriending and really creating a long-term relationship first. If they can help you later if they want to, as a reciprocal thing, they will because they have the access to your audience. Let me ask you a question about that too; do you then offer them a monetary reward for doing that or is it more you’re each helping each other whenever you can?

Not usually. I think I’d probably be happy to. I think we usually don’t because they’re usually in positions where they don’t really feel comfortable with taking it. They're often heads of Chambers and things like that, where it really is their job to be doing stuff like this. Where we feel it’s appropriate, we will do that.

I've honestly come to be a little bit cautious about doing it because many people, they just don’t want it. It can make some people very awkward and some people absolutely love it. We just like to meet people where they are. Many people, it is their business model to do it for their marketing. I’m incredibly respectful of that and I’m really happy to play in that place. But I wouldn’t assume everybody wants to or is able to.

I think that’s true. My publicist, who is my publicist for my radio tour in Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul, she says, “Just take me out to lunch.” She sent me clients and publishers to media train their authors. No, she will not accept anything in return other than me treating her to lunch.

We love to treat people so we often don’t ask. We just send them something. I love weekends away.

Yeah, that’s right. You love weekends. For anybody out there listening, she loves weekends away.

Something like that is just a fun thing to be able to do. I don’t want to do nothing but I actually think it works nicely both ways.

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That’s great. That is great. To reach Tommi, it’s Top6BusinessCoach.com/sh. To get that 8 Crucial Errors That Trap Talented Business Coaches In 5 Figures, it’s Top6BusinessCoach.com/8Errors-susan. You can also take the quiz called BusinessCoachQuiz.com to see if you have what it takes to become a high earning business coach.

I encourage you, if you are a coach or consultant and you are interested in fast tracking your business and really learning those kinds of things without having to make all the mistakes yourself, to jump on in to Tommi’s wonderful program. As you can hear, the kind of teacher that she is and how thorough she is in creating that program and that her coaches are … What did you say? You have 21 coaches and they’ve stayed for three years? Which is a pretty remarkable track record.

It’s lovely, we’re proud of it. They haven’t all been with me for three years. We've been adding to the program all along. My first wave, if you like, have now been with me for three years.

That’s really wonderful. That is really wonderful. Is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you wanted to add?

I think I probably just need to not leave it dangling and just need to make it number four.

We are going to go to four. I thought you were only going to tell us two of the four.

No. I think I’m just going to go through all of those.

I’m all for that.

Number one was running live events, it’s definitely my favorite. Number two is speaking on other people’s stages because of the outreach. Number three is finding strategic alliances because there are probably ten people on this planet that could massively change your game from a business perspective. You want to tend and befriend those people. If you don’t know them today, I wouldn’t be in any way cowered by that because there’s a gazillion good ways to go and meet somebody that you don’t know and that would make the intro for the ten people that can really change your world.

Number four is the one that I personally won’t do, but it’s networking. Every single person I know who’s very successful has a powerful network. I may not go to networking meetings but they have a really powerful Rolodex of amazing human beings and they’re really willing to give as much as they get or preferably more.

That’s how we met.

It is indeed. Exactly how we met. Yes.

Nancy Juetten connected us and then we had a chat on the phone and you’ve already worked with the mentor that I’m going to be working with. I just wanted to chat about your experience about that and how you got into licensing and then I invited you on this podcast.

Yes. It’s interesting because we just started off meeting each other and nobody had any agendas. That’s exactly how it normally goes. It’s generally just amazing people meeting each other. That’s all you're really working for. We’re getting near the end Susan, probably I just want to reiterate my feeling that relationships are always going to trump sales. That’s really one of the reasons we love these techniques, speaking and events, for helping sell high priced offerings, in this case licenses.

I love it. I love that tend and befriend. That’s a wonderful, wonderful phrase that I’m going to be quoting you on because I really like that. Also, relationships trump sales. I think something that sometimes people forget in the frenzy of trying to make money.

Very much so.

That it goes back to what you were saying, is that you seem to have the most impact when you actually meet someone face to face. That’s not to say that online marketing doesn’t work, because it obviously does. But to put in the mix somewhere where you can meet people in person. Really, whether it’s on the stage, with someone else’s stage, whether it’s on your stage, to get them to really be able to have the sense of you in person.

Exactly. I think you summed that up really nicely.

Thank you so much for being our guest. It was really lovely. I think that people will feel very encouraged to either create a licensing program of their own or to jump on in to your licensing program. Best way to learn how to do something is to go to somebody else’s program who’s done it so you can have an example of that too.

Absolutely. If people want to talk with me about licensing, I’m quite open to that as well. I’ve learned a lot. It’s good to share.

That’s lovely. Thank you so much Tommi, this has been great.

Thank you Susan, thanks so much for having me.

About Tommi Wolfe

Tommi Wolfe—The Business Coach Launcher, guides business coaches to build their own dream businesses and fill them with clients, freedom and joy. This creates deep 6 figure businesses for their owners, and lasting impact for their entrepreneurial communities.

Business coaches hire Tommi for her smarts, trust her for her heart and create extraordinary businesses 5 times faster than they can on their own. You can find out more about her at http://top6businesscoach.com/sh

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  • A geniune way to build your business
    August 26, 2016 by Siriusjane from United States

    Loved this podcast. I found it very helpful and informative. Susan has a very open, friendly, riveting approach to promoting one's business and self. Her sharp insights and her real-life examples and guests can really help a business going from a start-up to a viral presence. I recommend this highly if you want to get your message out there with a genuine approach. Even the poetry speaks to the importants of our words. Check out all the episodes.

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    August 24, 2016 by Michele L. Plunkett from United States

    Winsome wisdom evokes and embodies the expertise of Susan Harrow; ensuring enlivening opportunities and outcomes through her podcasts and programs! Grow your business and income with the stellar style of Susan's endearing and enriching coaching! Susan Harrow Media Coaching and Marketing Strategies provide vitalizing results to invigorate your message when you implement her training!

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    Love Susan's work - her book and emails and short eBooks are all filled with enthusiasm and sparkle! So excited to be able to listen to her too now!

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    August 15, 2016 by SherryBelul from United States

    I'm thrilled to see that Susan Harrow is doing this podcast! I've taken a number of Susan's courses and I just love how warm, accessible, and doable her work is. Susan is an amazing trainer who is knowledgable about *all* aspects of publicity and media training, but she never overwhelms us with too much at once. She makes everything bite sized. (Sound-bite sized!) This podcast is no exception. You'll love the stories she tells to illustrate he points because they help make the information memorable. And she gives simple things to practice with. If you want to grow your business, I highly recommend this podcast. Not only will you love the training, I know you will love Susan's generous heart + authentic teaching style.

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