Habits and Strategies to Overcome Impostor Syndrome and Create Excellency – Susan Harrow on the Measure Success Podcast with Carl J. Cox

Measure Success Podcast with Carl J. Cox

Habits and Strategies to Overcome Impostor Syndrome and Create Excellency

Susan Harrow: Make sure no other birds fly down there. 

Carl J Cox: We get that in our chimney. We have a wood stove, and it happens from time to time. It will go into our wood stove. Oh, my God. 

Susan Harrow: Wait, and get burned up? 

Carl J Cox: No, after it won’t go in when it’s hot. It’ll go in when it’s not running. And we don’t run it that often, honestly. It’s only when it gets really cold do we run it. But yeah, we’ve probably had five birds over the last ten years go in there. It’s awful because we’re the same thing. Like, do we go in and kill it? 

Susan Harrow: No, we call the animal control first. But they’re like, how are they going to get it? You know what I mean? And they’re like, well, if you do capture and it’s wounded, we’ll come over. But if it’s a rat, we’re not going to do. And we’re like, no, we don’t think it’s a squirrel rat. And then once we looked outside, it could only have been a bird from where the hole was positioned, but I didn’t know that from the inside anyway, because they’re like, and if it’s a rat, we don’t handle it. You have to call rat patrol. What if we open it up and whatever it is, it’s escaping into the house? 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, that’s not fun. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. 

Susan Harrow: No worries. Just to fly out when they got in there, would you just open the door? And then they would go out eventually. 

Carl J Cox: They all died. 

Susan Harrow: Oh, no. Okay. 

Carl J Cox: Sorry. I hate to break it, Jeff, but yeah, there is no winning pass. 

Susan Harrow: Okay, well, I’m going to go with the fact that Arbert escaped. 

Carl J Cox: Good. Yeah. They’ve never gone back up like we’ve hoped that they would. So we don’t kill them because we’re hoping they’ll go back up, but they just eventually die. But it’s like, super sad because they’re like, trying to get out. Right. 

Susan Harrow: And the guy that was coming over here to repair, he said they can’t figure out how to go up the same way with it. They came down like, these are the same way? 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, they’re really dumb that way. We’ll put like, a towel over the window so we don’t have to watch it. It’s just awful. It’s silly awful. It’s totally awful. We haven’t ever had a dryer that’s a new one. I hadn’t heard that one before. 

Susan Harrow: There’s a thing that blocks it for us with these storms. I didn’t even know it blew down a tree in the front, which just missed my car, by the way. And they were out there, but then I didn’t even think about it being blown off from the building, from the powerhouse itself. 

Carl J Cox: That’s what happened to us. We had some good storms over this winter and it just blew right off again. I was like, oh, crap, I got to get put back. 

Susan Harrow: Because I was like, can you get one that’s not going to blow off. 

Carl J Cox: I don’t know why it’s so hard, but apparently it really is because ours get blown off all the time and we don’t even find them. 

Susan Harrow: I couldn’t find it. I don’t know where were looking. Where did it go? Right. 

Carl J Cox: And where do you live again? Forgive me. 

Susan Harrow: So, Sandra Fell, which is Northern California Sonoma. I forgot where you live as well. 

Carl J Cox: About 45 minutes west of the Portland airport. 

Susan Harrow: Okay. 

Carl J Cox: Up in Oregon here. Yeah, same side of the coast there. 

Susan Harrow: Did you connect with Denise Griffiths? Because she knows everybody. 

Carl J Cox: Not yet, no. But you did connect me with-

Susan Harrow: I connected you with Jason Ma. 

Rediscovering God Through Loss in The Shack

Carl J Cox: Yes. And we had a wonderful conversation. Oh, good. And like, a really good one. He’s going to be on the podcast here in a little while and I introduced him to Paul Young, who is the author of The Shack. 

Susan Harrow: Oh, neat. 

Carl J Cox: I don’t know if you ever read that book or heard about that book. Yeah. 

Susan Harrow: Should I read it? 

Carl J Cox: Yes. Well, it’s an amazing book. I’ll just share with you whether you choose or not to read or not. But it’s about 20 years old. Paul wrote it and it- 

Susan Harrow: Gets you. 

Carl J Cox: To think differently about, I’ll tell you a story because it’s basically written out. Basically, it’s a story of a young girl who goes missing. And I can’t give you too much because I will give up away the story. But it’s this very intense event and the father who’s trying to find the daughter, okay, I’m not going to say much more than that, but it will change the way you see God. 

Susan Harrow: Oh, really? That was freaking, I’m writing that down. Well, I’m going to put it on my list. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, you will read it very quickly. I was reading in the airport because I had a daughter, at the time, was around the age of this missing girl. And I was bawling on the plane. Like, I was bawling and there was just tears coming down and it was awful because I couldn’t hide it. There were so many tears. Like, I couldn’t even, like, that’s really funny. There was no way to, of course. 

Susan Harrow: You want to hide it. 

Carl J Cox: But yeah, I just met him last, matter of fact, a week ago on Friday. And he was an extraordinary human being. And so, yeah, I connected him and Jason because of where they are. So, I think they will have a really fascinating conversation. But yeah, I’ve met a lot of amazing people, but I’ve never met somebody who, and he has a really, and he’ll be the first to tell you, he would say he didn’t really mature until he was 50 years old, and he wrote the book for his kids with no intention of it ever going anywhere. And it became a movie. And now Amazon is thinking about having it be a series. 

Susan Harrow: That’s so hot right now. 

Carl J Cox: Interesting, he lost the rights to his book in the movie.

Susan Harrow: Oh, no, say that’s not true. 

Carl J Cox: No, it did happen to him, but he was able to continue to write because they actually originally had the rights to him ever writing a book again. 

Susan Harrow: How did that happen? 

Carl J Cox: Oh, he got screwed over big time. But it was all as he would say, it was all part of what was supposed to happen. 

Susan Harrow: I hate to hear that sort of thing, though, too, in the publishing industry. I don’t know if I, yeah, they- 

Carl J Cox: Literally stole from him. There was missing money. I mean, it was bad. And yeah, he got no money from the movie. 

Susan Harrow: Oh no. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, it literally happened, went out and he got nut. Anyways, but I highly recommend the book. It’s very intense, but very thought provoking. And it’s hard for a lot of people to read, especially if they had loss, because once again, it helps you to think of how God can look different than how we traditionally view it. So, a lot of people, even who I hate to use the term religious, but I’ll use the term religious for argument’s sake, have not liked the book because they’re like, you’re putting God in a different way, in a different form that people aren’t used to seeing. And so, it’s sacrilegious, if you may. And so, there’s been some who have been like, it’s almost heresy the way, how they put it down. Yeah, I think the book is brilliant. It’s absolutely brilliant. 

Susan Harrow: Well, I am going to get it right away from the library. 

Carl J Cox: So, text me. So, why do I have to drive? 

Susan Harrow: Your number 510-912-0107. 

You Can’t Control Technology, But You Can Control Your Reaction When Things Go Awry

Carl J Cox: You got to do that one more time. Okay, so that’s 510-912-0107. I’ll put on my name in here, and I just realize I’m going to have you hang for just a minute. I’m glad I didn’t see it, but I got to address it real quick. So, hang on just a minute. I got to make a super quick phone call. I got some emergency and I just see you, here’s… All right, that was interesting. So, we just took over payroll for one of our companies. For some reason, the hourly payroll didn’t go all the way through. We don’t exactly know why, but it may have had either to do so with daylight savings time and/or they used to run through Silicon Valley Bank and now they’re running through a new bank. 

Carl J Cox: So we’re guessing it was more of a delay on the banking side, if that makes sense. But anyways, we had some hourly employees freaking out because they hadn’t got paid yet. That makes sense. They do. Seems like we did everything right on our side. It sounds like it’s more of a banking issue, so. 

Susan Harrow: Good. 

Carl J Cox: So, anyways, now we can get back to our plan here, which was actually do a podcast, so forgive me for- 

Susan Harrow: That, but that was no worries catching up on stuff. There’s always things to do. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, there always is. Literally. I usually put on airplane mode, so I don’t get interrupted in these things. And then I don’t know why, oh, I turned on to text you, and then all of a sudden, all these text messages came through. So that’s how I found out, and-

Susan Harrow: I just put you into my database, so now you’re not an unknown junk person. 

Carl J Cox: Okay, awesome. All right, so let me finalize the bio up and all that. I’m trying to reduce my stress a little bit. And that was not a stress reduce. 

Susan Harrow: It made me feel a little stressed, I admit. I’ve tried not to take on any of your stress. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, it plays down, but that was like, whoa. That was deep breaths. Deep breaths. 

Susan Harrow: Right. When it comes to software, and I don’t know about you, but what stresses most are the things that I feel like I really have very little control. I mean, I know we have little control over everything, but I can control myself. But when technology goes awry, I just don’t have the kind of resources in mind to figure I can turn things on and off, but, other than un-fiddle. But when technology goes awry, I feel like I’m a little bit like a helpless child, and that’s where the stress comes in. I have a great tech gal, and she can usually figure everything out. And, I have a Mac tech person for my actual computers, and then the tech person, but you know what I mean? Like, if something goes awry and that’s our business. Right? That’s the highest level of stress. 

Susan Harrow: It’s not getting somebody out of a burning building. I can do that. Or in a hospital, you know what I mean? Like, I’m good in emergencies and hospitals and getting somebody out of a burning building. But technology, I find that much more daunting. 

Carl J Cox: Crazy. All right, well, okay, let me.

Susan Harrow: I think I turned off my phone, so, I’m hoping, and the volume. So, I think we’re all good. 

Carl J Cox: Anything since we last talked? Anything top of mind in particular? You’re like, oh, I really want to talk about this. 

Susan Harrow: No, I think I just really want to talk about if you think it would be most beneficial. Kind of like what we talked about in our original thing, like maybe startups having a different idea about pitching and a different idea about when to start PR and how to do that. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah. 

Susan Harrow: And I was thinking about this morning because I do have an example of mine. I don’t know if we talked about it, but just, even, you can start before your products out and how to do some ideas about how to do that. So, I thought I’d talk about kind of both aspects of that, of creating your messaging, for, you want to position yourself in the marketplace? Yeah. 

Carl J Cox: Okay. So I have to ask, and maybe it’s not in there. Are you from Canada originally? 

Susan Harrow: No. Do I sound like Canadian? 

Carl J Cox: You say “about” sometimes, like, you say, like, slight, different enunciation. It’s so interesting. I have a lot of Canadians that come onto the podcast and so, just the way you had said, just the “about” thing a little bit. You just had a slight little “about”. 

Susan Harrow: They say “aboot”, but I grew up in Chicago. 

Carl J Cox: Okay. 

Susan Harrow: The Midwestern thing that you, most people don’t pick it up, but there are people who go like, you’re from there, you’re from Chicago? And I’m like, yeah, you hear it in upstate New York. Yeah. So, I think the flatter A, I still lived in California for 45 years, maybe longer. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, but some things don’t kick money. 

Susan Harrow: So, you heard it. So, I don’t know what it is. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, that’s why I had to ask. I was like, where are you from? Because that was like, that sounded very like my Canadian friend. 

Susan Harrow: They say “abu”. 

Making Connections – The Measure Success Podcast, 40 Strategy and Game of Conversions

Carl J Cox: Yeah, well, it depends to which side of the province they’re in or the country of the western side. It’s not as deep, but eastern side seems to be a little deeper. I don’t know. Anyway, little side note. Awesome. All right, you ready? Okay. Fine. Volume fine from your perspective. Okay, good. Okay, awesome. Carl J. Cox here and I’m the host of the Measure Success podcast where I talk with top leaders about effective strategy that inspire success. This episode is brought to you by 40 Strategy. 40 Strategy is built to make strategy work for small to medium sized companies and organizations by designing world class strategy plans, but just as importantly, help keeping them accountable to actually get it done. To learn more, go to strategy. We also have just recently launched the Captain Strategy Workshop. 

Carl J Cox: This is a great way for you to, instead of working with us individually on a per client basis, you get to work with a collective group of people who are working on their strategic plan and a group process to help you design your own strategic plan. It’s a great process with great principles. Once again, learn more, go to fortystrategy.com. We like to do a shout out from time to time and that is for Csaba Borzati. He is the founder of Game of Conversions and he’s been a phenomenal person. Matter of fact, I just talked with him earlier today of looking at his mastery, if you may. His gift that he has is learning how to write things the right way so you can help people when you’re trying to sell something or provide information. 

Carl J Cox: So, the copy is done in the right way. So, it’s done in a friendly, approachable manner that you actually want to connect and buy the product or service that you’re providing. So, anyways, thank you very much to Csaba for this recommendation to Susan. Susan Harrow is a media trainer, marketing strategist, martial artist, and author of the best-selling book Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul from Harper Collins. She specializes in working with the wild minds who solve the world’s most pressing problems. And, for over 30 years, she’s trained thousands of CEOs, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders to appear on everything from Oprah to Ink, and turn their message into money using media appearances. Susan. Welcome to The Measures US podcast. 

Susan Harrow: And Csaba was so helpful. I’m so grateful for him for introducing us. And also, he was helping me with one of my opt in pages, so I’m very grateful for that. And it was brilliant, very easy to implement changes, which we did immediately. Yeah, that’s awesome. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, we provided some information. It’s like, oh, you ought to consider changing. It was great. So, we were talking with him, and he’s wonderful. Once again. One of the things I think you’ve learned, Susan, especially when you have a business, is you shouldn’t assume you’re doing everything the right way. And, there’s a great book. It’s who, not how, sometimes, right? It’s finding the right partners and the world around us. And that’s one of the things I’d love to book podcasts, is connecting with so many brilliant people so you can find who’s some of the best people in the world at something specific when you’re tackling a new problem that you’ve never dealt with beforehand. So, Susan, why don’t you share a little bit more about, we kind of said, the kind of big picture, the bio, the short bio perspective. 

Carl J Cox: What do you do on a daily basis, how you make an impact in the world today? 

Susan Harrow: Yeah, and I was thinking about my background, too, because, and I had to go back to my LinkedIn page to review it, because I realized I have worked for two startups, so one was acquired by Sprint. But I really understand, kind of, the chaos that can happen when you’re starting a business and all of those changes. And I actually started an account executive program that went nationwide for one of the startups because there’s a lot of opportunity for innovation. I think you asked me, why do I do what I do? What makes me happy? Was that the question? 

The 3 P’s of PR: Presenting, Position and Polish

Carl J Cox: Yeah. No, please. Well, that’s part of it, but also just gaining that kind of, what you’re doing. If you may, how are you actually supporting clients, doing PR? Kind of talk about your day to day efforts that you’re working with your clients today. 

Susan Harrow: Yeah, so I work on a number of levels. So I work with everyone from beginners to people who are thought leaders and depending on where they are in that process, some people are working on pitching investors, getting their next round, funding other people. A lot of women, but men have this, too, come to me because they have Impostor Syndrome, and it is super common. One stat shows that it’s 90% of us have doubt or Impostor Syndrome. So, I think it’s just it’s kind of an epidemic. But there’s a real difference between doubt and Impostor syndrome, I think. But, I believe that whenever we start to go to the next level, it’s a natural progression to start to feel like I don’t know what I’m doing and everyone else knows more than me and I don’t belong in this league. 

Susan Harrow: So, it’s working on, with people, ultimately on their confidence and calm, to present themselves to the media in the best way that represents themselves, their business and their brand, and their values, and to show them that. So, I work with people on panels, podcasts, TV, print, any like LinkedIn lives or Facebook, Instagram lives, any of those different mediums. So what they say has the impact that they want. When I said turn their message into money, it’s not just money, it’s opportunities, it’s partnerships, it’s… PR can open up the whole entire world to you. So, we look at everything that you want in your life and your business and then we create those foundational messages and work with you as the person to deliver those messages. So, it’s essentially presenting, it’s positioning and polish, all of those kinds of things. 

Susan Harrow: So, where are you in the marketplace? Are you delivering the message that you have? Is everything that you do, say, are, and think, in alignment with what you believe and what you’re offering? Because that’s when things really start to happen. So, I work on all of that, different levels, from the marketing strategy, planning, from your words to your website, all the way through how you are in presenting yourself and your business in whatever medium you choose. Does that make sense? 

Carl J Cox: Does, first of all, go back to that statistic of the 90% of individuals have Impostor Syndrome. That’s fascinating. Like, how significant that is. So, when you’re working with somebody to help overcome that and to help them recognize that no, you actually are providing a deeper value in the world. What strategies do you do to help them overcome their doubts, right, of their own, who they are?

Meditation, Exposure Therapy and Strategies to Overcome Doubt and Master the Media 

Susan Harrow: A lot of it’s reflection, but it’s also some of my very first clients. I’ve been working with startups since I’m near the Silicon Valley. Like, one of my startups was Astrology.com a long time ago and they got acquired for 60 million. So, when you’re working with startups, sometimes you’re doing a lot of different things too. But, really I worked with a lot of, my clients were in the transformational space. So, before mindfulness and meditation and all of that was popular, I got to do the trainings for all of my clients, with all of my clients. So, I feel like I’ve gotten this deep training and I’ve been meditating since I was a taught. I sort of discovered it by accident in church, by staring at a candle. 

Susan Harrow: And then suddenly I was in some kind of expansive state, but I got really interested in it, really, pretty young and in high school, and started experimenting with different meditation techniques. So, while that’s really kind of in the background because when somebody comes to me, they are like, they want to do media and they want to express through their businesses. They don’t necessarily want to be trained on meditation or tapping or whatever that is, but it’s whatever is appropriate that can shift someone’s internal barometer really quickly. So, I work on the external level, which is cognitive behavioral level, which is also called exposure therapy, which is the more that you do something, the less you become afraid of it. So, if you have like an aggressive interviewer, then I play that. 

Susan Harrow: Like, I played Dan Rather for like 60 Minutes, or Bill O’Reilly, who’s not on the air anymore, but any kind of like, super aggressive, whatever the scenario is. So, sometimes some people have trouble with intimacy, some intimate questions that are too personal. Other people have trouble with being more aggressive or pointed and it triggers them. So, whatever that is for you, we role play that and start to figure out, is it triggered from something way back in your childhood? Was it just triggered because, whatever that is, we don’t always have to know the source. We just want to go and say, well, how can I deal with this in the moment? 

Susan Harrow: So, whatever is right for that person in the moment, whatever kind of practice that is, that’s what we do together to get them to a state of calm and equanimity so they can master themselves, to master the media. And by the way, we don’t always know what those trigger points are until we have tapped into them. So, for example, one startup, actually, it was a pretty well-developed company that was international, but they were going for their next round of funding in three days with investors. And the CEO knew he was triggered by this one type of sales guy. And he’s like, this guy gets under my skin every single time. I don’t know what to do. And I said, well, let me play him. And he’s like, oh my God, you’re playing him. Exactly. 

Susan Harrow: He just told me a couple of things and he’s like, that’s right. And so, instead of trying to figure out where did this come from, which he can figure out with a therapist, right? We’re like, okay, how do you deal with this right now? And I played that role with him until he felt comfortable and was no longer triggered at that same level. 

Carl J Cox: And why this is important, I have to imagine, right, is if you’re working with somebody. 

Susan Harrow: So he got in good. 

Don’t Fake It ‘Till You Make It, Practice Until It Is Embodied

Carl J Cox: But why I bring this up, and, I think the questions, why I’m asking the questions is, it’s hard to do PR if you don’t believe it? Oh, you mean yeah, right. If you’re helping somebody with PR and you’re like, helping, you believe. No, this is really who you are and what you do. And if they don’t buy into it’s going to come across that way, it’s going to come across, and they’ll also feel uncomfortable. And, as you, I think, said earlier in the beginning, they’re not going to be in alignment with all the messaging and information that goes through. 

Carl J Cox: So, I think that’s brilliant that you’re hitting not only on what I call the tactics of what the PR should be, if you may, but also on the being side of who they are, helping them recognize that they can overcome this imposter syndrome that’s so common, right? So, everyone is listening. You ever wonder if you’re not where you feel you should be, join the club. Most of us have been there in one way, shape or form. 

Susan Harrow: It’s also one other thing. We used to think it was like with Malcolm Gladwell’s research, we thought it was you sum somebody up in seven seconds. But no, it’s called thin slicing. It’s a fraction of a second. We already know if we believe in you and we’ll trust you and we’ll buy from you, we already know that thin slate, we all have it. And some people are more finely tuned. And so, once you have that initial impression, then yes. Can you overcome it? Yes. But we’re all automatically assessing each other. That’s why presence is the most important thing. And it is one of the most important things for startups, too. 

Susan Harrow: Because, if the investors don’t believe in you and your leadership, it doesn’t matter how great, oh, I’m positioned here in the marketplace, here’s your ROI, if they don’t believe that you as a leader can lead this company to success, then you’re not going to get the money. Right? I mean, end of story. So, you can have the best story in the world, but if you are not the best embodiment of your company and your idea, then it is for not. And can you build that? Yes. Can we build character? Yes. But you also come with your own set of circumstances and genetics and all of that. Right, but then we build upon that. So, I don’t believe in faking till you make it. I believe in practicing until it’s embodied. 

Carl J Cox: Say that again. I think that was good. 

Susan Harrow: Until you make it. I believe in practicing it until it is embodied. Like, when I was talking about meditation and tapping, some of it is a cumulative effect, meaning you don’t suddenly become calm after a couple of hours of meditation or a couple of months. But there is the build-up of that kind of internal self confidence that comes with these deep practices. It’s the same with martial arts. I’m a black belt in Aikido. I am a very ugly black belt. A black belt we consider is the beginning of being teachable. So, my Aikido, sadly, because beauty and grace is a value of mine. I’m a beautiful tennis player, but I am not a beautiful aikidoka. So, what happens on the mat is the same thing that happens in media. When somebody steps onto the mat, you size them up exactly. 

Susan Harrow: You know where their weaknesses are and how confident they are. So, part of stepping onto the mat is feeling that internal power and extending it out into the world before you even step on the mat, so that your opponent feels it and you can begin to command yourself. And it’s the same thing with media. We are all nervous and I still get nervous. I still get nervous, even for podcasts. I’ve eaten very little. That doesn’t go away. But who did I hear the other day? Somebody said, I choose to turn my nervousness into excitement. And I’m like, yes. And that’s not an easy choice either, because when we’re nervous, that’s what we’re feeling. But they’re very similar energies. 

Susan Harrow: So, part of that is being able to do the practices off the mat, off the media, and then practicing when you are in the venue that you’re going to be in. Like, if you are pitching investors, you want to do that as realistically as possible so you can get the feel of it and be in studio. If you’re going to do TV, be on a panel, do mock-ups like that, so you can get the feel of it, because that’s what’s sometimes missing is getting the feel in your internal body, right? 

The Emotional Freedom Technique: Tapping to Calm the Autonomic Nervous System

Carl J Cox: So, the term you put a couple of times, concept of tapping, explain that a little bit more to the audience. What does that mean and how do you practice that, if you may, and what you do? 

Susan Harrow: Sure, it’s called Emotional Freedom Technique. And what it is, it’s tapping on the meridians, which is the karate shot point you start on first. And, typically in tapping this is to acknowledge where the issue is. So, you might say, even though I’m feeling insecure and self-doubting, and don’t think I can do this, I still choose to love and honor and cherish myself. So, you start with the negative first on the carotid chat point and you do this three times, and then you start to tap through the points first through the negatives. So, the points are eyebrow point here. So, these are meridians. And by tapping on these meridians, it calms your autonomic nervous system and starts to give different brain messages and different messages to your body. So, the points are the eyebrow point here. 

Susan Harrow: So, I might say, God, I feel so insecure and my stomach is rumbling. I don’t know why I’m so nervous, but I hate myself for it. You could even say, if that’s the truth of it, or, why does this keep happening to me? And then under the eye. Every time I go before investors, I get nervous and I blow it. I don’t get the money; I haven’t chosen the right people for my company. This idea is probably lousy to begin with. So, it’s under the collarbone points, and the last one is under here. It’s about at the bra line point, then top of the head. And then you start to, so you go a couple of rounds of negative and then you start to switch to the positive. I’m starting to feel like it’s possible to be a little more confident. 

Susan Harrow: I feel like I can learn what it takes to do a great presentation. I feel like if I start to practice, I will start to get these kinds of skills. So, you go through and then you just start to do the positive. And then I forgot to say, in the beginning, you rate where you are on a scale of one to ten, how much do you feel this way? How scared you are, nervous or whatever that is, or how much this is bugging you? And then at the end, you rate yourself again after you’ve done a number of rounds of tapping. And you can do as many rounds as you like. You can do five minutes, you can do 20 minutes, depending, like, if nothing’s shifting, keep going. Yeah. 

Carl J Cox: Wow, that’s cool. Thank you. I had not seen that in practice before, so thank you. And for those who are listening, I encourage you to listen, to watch us on YouTube, because you’ll actually see it. Of course, I’m sure you could do YouTube and pull things up, but I appreciate you sharing more about that. 

Susan Harrow: Go to The Tapping Solution. Nick Ortner and his family. Jessica Ortner. They’re really great. That’s a great introduction if you’re interested in tapping. And there’s all kinds of different teachers who have like, different methodologies. There was just a tapping summit. I love to listen to them all because they all kind of approach it in a really different way. And people sometimes go through different meridian points. There’s points on your legs and you can do all kinds of things. There’s all different kinds of meridian points on your body. So, I think it’s a super great, I do it every day just because there’s so much stuff I think we all have. I want to move through it. It’s not like it ever ends. It’s not like your stuff ever ends. 

Carl J Cox: There’s always something new to shift and not the truth. Right. I think there’s sometimes, as younger people, whether they’re young adults or young entrepreneurs, and like, oh, when I get to 40 or 50, it’s going to get easier. And it’s like, no, you actually have just more connections and more life experiences and more challenges. Right. 

Susan Harrow: You’ve gone through, I think the challenges just get deeper and more subtle, too, if you’ve worked through a lot of challenges. I have a friend who loves therapy, and she’s married now and she’s like, married. They’ve been together about four years and she’s like, we just cracked a new level of intimacy in therapy that I didn’t know was possible, because they were already really close. But she doesn’t do it. She’s not going to therapy because of issues. She’s going to become a deeper, more thoughtful, more actualized person. 

Carl J Cox: That’s good. Love it. Okay. 

Susan Harrow: I didn’t know we’d be getting into this area at all. 

How To Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul

Carl J Cox: I didn’t know either. And that’s what I love about the podcast. It just brings out when you have a conversation, you end up talking about really fascinating things. I’m always curious. I appreciate you sharing that. But I think it goes into, once again, what you do. Part of PR, right, is to help get people to a spot, to a position where they’re being perceived in a certain way once again, so they can sell the company, or get new investing, or sell a product, or whatever it might be. Once again, though, if we can’t transform ourselves into believing that’s true, just like we said in the beginning, if the people who are thinking about investing, if they don’t have confidence in those who are doing the investing, they’re not going to invest in them, right? 

Carl J Cox: So, finding ways for us to find techniques to help overcome, that is just as important as the outcome of the words and the way, literally, their position is, and what they’re saying on a consistent basis. Because so much of it is nonverbal communication, and we’re incredible human beings that can read things before they’re said, often, just like you said, when it’s very quickly, like what Malcolm Gladwell talked about in his book. And so, I think that’s super fascinating. So, let’s talk about your book a little bit. Sell yourself without selling your soul. I love that title, by the way. I have hired coaches to help as we’ve grown, to help remind me to stay consistent with who we are, who I want to be, who I want our company to represent, how we’re making a difference in the world. 

Carl J Cox: Because it’s not worth it to me, right, to give it up for gains. It’s not worth giving up different parts. So, with that, tell us a little bit more about what that means. What is this concept, sell yourself without selling your soul? I kind of go into what are some of the things that you have to help people out, to help make sure that they’re still accomplishing it, quote, unquote, the right way? 

Susan Harrow: So, I wrote sell yourself without selling your soul. Because clients, I was doing a lot of teaching and speaking at that time, and people kept coming up to me and saying, I feel like I have to brag, beg or w**** myself to get great publicity. So, if you do feel that inside, and I would ask in a room, how many of you feel like you’re prostituting yourself to get publicity? And three quarters of the room would raise their hand, and I think the other quarter is lying. So, how then do we begin if we’re already in that place of really accepting our value and sharing that value and those gifts? And, I think a question to ask is, what is mine to give, and what is mine to do in the lifetime, in this time that you’ve given? And those are not easy questions. 

Susan Harrow: But when I wrote the book, because also, people believe, oh, extroverts, you have to be extroverted. So, I wrote the book for introverts and extroverts, and for people who are fast starts and slow starts, and in between starts. So I really wrote it for everyone who could do it their way. So, you can set up, it’s everything from what publicity is, to setting up a publicity campaign that suits your energy and style, to the media training part, which is what I do now, which is, are you the message that you want to give? Like what Gandhi said, my life is my message. 

Susan Harrow: And I really do believe, at that core, like, what you were just saying, the core is your core, and the core of what you’re doing and who you are, whether it’s a business, book, product, service or cause, comes through in every area. And that’s what we’re working on, every area. So, in PR, when I’m working with a company or a CEO or an entrepreneur, it’s like, are you the best representative of your business and brand? And if not, we work on that. So, it is deeply infused into every area of your business, both what is seen and unseen. Yeah. And I wanted to say one other thing about the introversion extroversion thing, because Adam Grant, I heard Adam Grant talking about who gets more money, and the myth is that extroverts do. 

Susan Harrow: But the truth is that introverts do in terms of, because sometimes extroverts are so bubbly and passionate that they’re not taken seriously, and the introverts might have more. Not that they necessarily have better stats, but because they’re not so frothy, they get more money. And I think if you look at thought leaders today and you look at people in the culture, it really is a mix. But the introverts are the loudest, chirpiest voices, right? So, we tend to notice them more. But, there’s people who are deep thinkers, and if we look at celebrities and musicians and all of that, there are plenty of them who are, even though they’re on stage, because a lot of people are on stage, are introverts. My brother’s one, he’s a musician and we’ll travel, but he’s an introvert too. But you never know it, right? 

Susan Harrow: I consider myself a trained extrovert. I’m an introvert as well. Yeah, but my parents trained us very well, I think. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, no, it can be trained and to teach people once again to communicate what they want to naturally hold within, if you may, because of their natural strengths, but good degree. All eleven leaders were all introverts, of the greatest companies in the world. Based on the study that they did, the 15 years of study, they identified that, no, it’s actually all the more, it was really fascinating. And now you’re saying another stat. Not only were they the most successful, they raised more money. Right. They had the capabilities and yeah, I think there is often, there’s this confusion between success. It’s not about necessarily vocalizing and communicating a consistent basis or entertaining. 

Susan Harrow: But also there is a study, it was done by Cornell about the top leaders. It was, were they $50 million companies, 50 million and above? They did a study of the leaders and the number one quality that stood out that made them great leaders was self-awareness. And that’s why when you and I are talking about those kinds of backgrounds, being self-aware, knowing what your triggers are, or being open to discovering what those are will help you be, not only a better leader and a better business owner and an entrepreneur, but a better person. 

Reach the Level of Mastery That is Possible for You Through Endless Repetition

Carl J Cox: Good stuff. Really good stuff. Okay, so in your business of what you do, how are you measuring success? 

Susan Harrow: And I know you asked me that question to think about it, and I have so many answers. For me, peace of mind and equanimity in, no matter what’s going on in the outside, is the most important thing to me. And my BFF, I have a girl BFF and, male and female BFF, and my female BFF just said, I’m going to make this the year where, and she’s a therapist, by the way, a lawyer, a therapist, but she said, I want to make this year of joy, awe. And what was the third one? I can’t remember the third one, but it was something like adventure. And I thought, those are such great things. And I think that for me, living a life of joy is super important. 

Susan Harrow: And also, being a person that is, I see myself as a, there’s in the Buddhist tradition, calling yourself a wish fulfilling jewel. I see myself as a wish-fulfilling jewel. And there’s sort of a beautiful visualization of seeing like a diamond in your heart and shining it out to all beings. And that’s what I mean. Yes, I have all of this work that I do, but that’s what I really want. I want to be like that shining, glorious, radiant thing that just makes people feel better when they’re near me. And I think that part of that is like, if I were to say what’s underneath my work is really believing that anything is possible and that people are all capable beyond measure of what they believe, and that if you do want to do something, you can do it. 

Susan Harrow: And that being said, like, I’m five two, I’m not going to be a great basketball player, right, or whatever, but within our capabilities, our physical bodies and what were given, I think that anything is possible that someone aspires to, and I believe that in people, because I’ve seen it so many times, too. But I think I believed it before I saw it. I was teaching tennis long before when I was in high school. And so, I remember, you know, like this one gal who owns a very famous winery and said to me, she was a C player, not good, you know? And she said, do you think that I could ever be good? And I think I was about 17 at the time. And I said, absolutely. If you work at it, go do the ball machine. Hit thousands of balls. 

Susan Harrow: Hit ten thousands of balls if you work on it. And this is what you want, because she really wanted to be good, but she was a C player. There’s a wide way to get to be an A player. Will she ever get to be an A player? Maybe not, but maybe she could get to be a B. But I remember telling her absolutely and. 

Carl J Cox: Believing, it’s a fascinating, once again, our self-limiting beliefs right. That prevent ourselves from being more successful, practice in iteration. 

Susan Harrow: And that’s what I think, because I was raised playing classical piano, not gifted. I was raised playing tennis. I picked it up. Not gifted, but persistent, and I wanted to get good at it. And I went to a tennis camp, and I was just, like, crazy for tennis, who played like, 10 hours a day, and the camp asked me to come back and teach. That was the furthest thing from my mind. I was 16. I came back to teach my peers, right? But it was because I was so devoted, because I loved it so much, but not because I was great. I wasn’t ever great, and I’m not great, but I was good. And I was devoted to getting better and hitting those tens of thousands of balls. And that’s what I think it takes also for meteor to be a thought leader. 

Susan Harrow: It’s the practice and the iteration that it’s not 10,000 hours. It’s 10,000 hours of iteration that each do something. You do it a little differently, and you make it a little bit better, and you continue to get better and better until you reach the level of mastery that’s possible for you. 

Habits To Create Consistent Excellent Performance

Carl J Cox: That’s right. All right. One of our final questions, and you’ve shared a few of them already today that you do, but what are some habits that you do that have helped you help, have excellent performance on a consistent basis? 

Susan Harrow: Yeah. So one of them is just that, like, when I was doing Aikido and was so bad, I went four days a week, 2 hours a day, consistent training practice, worst kid on the mat. Like, really, you can’t even imagine, people would run away from me. I was so bad. So, for me, before I get out of bed, I do cat petting meditation. I pet my two cats because it’s soothing and they’re purring and they’re there waiting for their food. But I do a series of meditations before I get out of bed. And I also do some, I have a prayer that I say. I think you’d call it a prayer, that I say every single day, which is, ‘Open my path before me and grant me the opportunity to be of greatest good in the world.’ 

Susan Harrow: So I say that every day to open up those possibilities because I don’t know what they are. So, I have like a series in the morning, I have a series in the evening, and I have sort of the series in between the day. And what I often recommend to my clients is, if you want to start gaining control over your mind every hour, stop and just breathe and clear your mind for a minute because then you can do it on command. You can start to clear your mind on command because our minds are so busy, and we’re so stuffed with pings and dings and what we have to do. But if you just clear your mind for one minute every hour, you’ll start to have that kind of command over your own mind, which is mind, body, the whole thing. 

Susan Harrow: So, those are a couple of things. But I have a pretty extensive practice and I walk every day and I do different things walking as well. So, sometimes I devote it to prayer. Prayer. And I’m not saying in traditional, like what I was taught as a Catholic, which I thought, but I got the idea I was taught as a Catholic, you could say like the Hail Mary’s as fast as you could and then dole them out because that’s how I was taught, right? So, that’s how I started. Just at night I would say a gazillion prayers and give them to people. So, that’s not what I do anymore. But I do extend goodwill to all beings and then to specific people as well. So, that’s a practice that I do daily too. Yeah, those are a few. 

The Path of The Sacred Warrior

Carl J Cox: Thank you. Now, a book that you’d recommend to our audience, not one of your own books, of course. 

Susan Harrow: Of course. 

Carl J Cox: I do recommend people to pick up yours, selling Yourself without Selling Your soul. But what is a book that really inspired you, that you would love to share with others? 

Susan Harrow: The one that I read every year, we read every year, is called Path of the Sacred Warrior by CHOGAM Trunka. It’s an old one, he’s dead. But it’s really about developing internal fearlessness, which, by the way, I’m so far away from. I’m such a little worrier about so many things. That’s why I do so many practices too, because I’m pretty high strung and have a lot of anxiety. So, I do all of this stuff to manage that. Right. So, I love that book because- 

Carl J Cox: He- 

Susan Harrow: Was an amazing character, also a horrible womanizer and a smoker and had all the Foibles. He was a monk, but he didn’t take all of those as seriously as people, not in the confines of what we think. But I love that he has this zest for life. I think that’s one of the most important things, is to follow your gypsy spirit, have this zest for life. And Henry really expresses that in that book. And I think that’s at the essence of it is having that zest and following your own gypsy spirit. And I think that book really embodies that for me because it doesn’t matter what you do after that if you have that spirit. Yeah. 

Carl J Cox: Susan, how can people connect and learn more about you? 

Susan Harrow: Yeah, they can go to Prsecrets.com, like public relations, Prsecrets with an s dot com. And I have all kinds of great free things. I’ve got free videos, free special reports, free master classes, so you can get everything. One thing that I would recommend for all of your people who everybody needs to have a signature story, whether if you’re going to do any kind of PR and any kind of fundraising of any sort. So that’s at Prsecrets.com. So, I would recommend that, oh, so you get five it’s super quick. It’s five templates that I’ve created for you that you can do in five minutes so everybody can get the bones of their signature story down. The five most what I have dissected and reverse engineered are the most common signature story types. There’s plenty more, but those will give. 

Carl J Cox: You a great that’s perfect. Thank you so much. Susan, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you as a guest on Meds podcast. 

Susan Harrow: Thank you. 

Carl J Cox: And to everyone else who’s listening, we just thank you for listening to the podcast. Listen to Susan. Without your ratings and without the referrals and recommendations from guests we have coming into pour into share their great secrets, we wouldn’t be here without you. So thank you so much for listening. And of course, we always say to you as our parting, we wish you the very best at measuring your success. Have a great day. 

Susan Harrow: The recording has.  

Carl J Cox: We got to make this quick because I got another call at the top of the hour. So, hang tight. We’re going to order you swag and then we’ll talk later about other stuff. We’ll have to have a follow up. We’re going to do this in one minute. Are you ready? 

Susan Harrow: Yes. 

Carl J Cox: Okay. All right, here we go. So, options here, we have shirts, long sleeve. We have polo, we have hoodies, so we have some Carhartt ones here. 

Susan Harrow: Okay. 

Carl J Cox: We have thermal training hoodie. We have half zip. That’s pretty much what I’m wearing right now. We have jackets and shorts and backpacks. So, what do these things? Yeah, so, the half zip here, this one right here? 

Susan Harrow: Yeah. That looks interesting. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah. So, that’s what I’m wearing. So, that’s what I’m wearing right here. Is it like spandexy? Yeah, it’s like see, here it comes back. So, it’s very flexible. And I love it. I wear it all the time. 

Susan Harrow: Okay, so are there any that have zippers, like, up this way, or they’re all zippers this way? 

Carl J Cox: This is up and down. So, this one? Yeah. I don’t think there’s anything that’s okay. 

Susan Harrow: I’ll go for that one. 

Carl J Cox: Okay. 

Susan Harrow: Yeah, you’re a walking advertisement for it if you love it. 

Carl J Cox: I do, yeah, I wear it all the time. 

Susan Harrow: Okay. 

Carl J Cox: All right. What size would you like? 

Susan Harrow: Medium. 

Carl J Cox: Medium? Okay. Got you. All right. 

Susan Harrow: That’s so exciting. I didn’t know what kind of swag I was going to get. 

Carl J Cox: Of course. We got to take care of you. Okay. We’re a new address. Let’s get this in here. 

Susan Harrow: I was going to type on the screen because I have it on. 

Carl J Cox: No. Yeah. What’s your address? 

Susan Harrow: Two five six Center Street. Center two five six. Is that six? 

Carl J Cox: I can’t, is that right? 

Susan Harrow: Yeah. I can’t see that, though, from here. Okay. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah. Two five six. 

Susan Harrow: Yeah. San Rafael. S-A-N. New word. R-A-F as in Frank A-E-L. California. 

Carl J Cox: Zip code 9018-4019-4901-9490-1. Got you. Okay. All right, so, I got to apologize. I got to pop off to my no worries. Thank you for this. 

Susan Harrow: Thank you for the interview. And we’ll talk again. 

Carl J Cox: We will. We’ll have information they’ll go through, and there’s more stuff to it if you do. You already recommended us guests, which we appreciate. So, if there’s other people, let us know. But we’ll, again, you’re part of our circle, as already mentioned. If there’s more people I could connect with, let me know and we’ll go from there. 

Susan Harrow: Thank you. And thank you for connecting me to Lewis. We’ve already had a quick conversation, so thank you. He’s a doll. 

Carl J Cox: Yeah, he is. All right, awesome. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. 


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Hi, I'm Susan

I’m a media coach, martial artist + marketing strategist who helps you communicate your values, mission + message during media interviews to multiply your revenue while building your brand + business. I believe that you don’t need to brag, beg or whore yourself to get the publicity you want. Nor do you need to be an axe murderer, a shamed sports star, or be involved in a sex scandal. There is another way…

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