Media Training + Martial Arts: Secrets to Become A Media Star

Media Training + Martial Arts: Secrets to Become A Media Star – Interview by CK Lin – The Noble Warrior Podcast

CK: Welcome to Noble Warrior live. My name is CK Lin. This is a place where visionaries talk about how they engineer their consciousness to create impact and fulfillment. My next guest, she’s a world-renowned media coach and marketing strategist at prsecrets.com.

She’s the author of the best-selling book Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul®. She’s media-trained thousands of CEOs, celebrity chefs, start-up speakers, entrepreneurs and authors. They appear on Oprah, CBS. 16 Minutes, The Today Show, Good Morning America, etc. Please welcome Susan Harrow.

Susan: Great to meet you all.

CK: Thank you so much for being here Susan.

Susan: It’s my pleasure I’m so thrilled.

CK: I want to jump right into it. In your bio, you had to share about the time that you almost got…

Susan: I knew you were going to start there.

CK: I mean! I can’t! That’s just such openness. Please share with us how you went from that experience to Aikido black belt, to where you are. So just paint us a little bit of a hero’s journey there.

Susan: I think that whenever we travel we have these amazing experiences that sort of take us out and mark us for the future. That’s what’s so beautiful about travel and talking about those kinds of things. I don’t know if you wanted me to actually go into it. To say what happened. Or should I just go right into Aikido?

CK: Whatever you like.

How I Found Aikido.

Susan: I think I’d like to jump into Aikido because to me that was a really transformative experience, right here in California. I started Aikido I didn’t even know about it but it. I know you talk a lot about it, “Synchronicity” so there was a series of synchronicity events, where a woman was mentioning a particular leadership practice. And that was just like lit up for me with a mentor and what I did was immediate. We were sort of on a little mini yoga retreat at a friend’s house. And as soon as I got home I looked up that person it was Richard Strozzi-Heckler. He has a leadership practice which is all physically based. There’s no PowerPoint, it’s all movement and it’s based on Aikido.

And I jumped on a call group call with him and really felt like I connected with him. Wanting to be trained in more body-based leadership. I didn’t know it was about aikido and so I listened to that and then I asked to interview him. For The Huffington Post but I had never written for The Huffington Post. And I just said to him “I want to write a piece on you at The Huffington Post”. I’ll figure it out later not knowing how hard it was at that time they weren’t having general people. Just write you had to go through a whole process and write. And I said I’m going to write an article on how many posts can I interview you. So, I interviewed him.

CK: I love that that’s like chutzpah just I’m going to go for it.

Susan: Right exactly I thought I’ll figure it out later. That kind of part of my future selfing too that’s what I was trying to teach. Like the learning annex or teaching, set the class and then figure out how to teach it later. So it’s like this what I’m going to teach and then I would.

CK: You’re a true entrepreneur I love it.

Susan: Yeah, so he invited me up to his dojo and said, “Well why don’t I show you, some of these practices?”. Then I went there and I had never asked anybody to be my mentor before. And I didn’t even know what that match was and I said I want you to be my mentor. I don’t know what that means can we work something out and we actually decided to do a trade.

Then they were having the very first Ethiopian guy getting his black belt to take it back. To teach gangs and stuff in Ethiopia, Aikido. I saw him do his black belt test. It was so beautiful and so moving. It felt like I have transported to another state with a wooden knife and just the flowing. He was so beautiful. You could just see he was this beautiful person inside and out. He was very tall and regal like a noble warrior. So I decided on the spot that I wanted to train in Aikido. But little did I know how arduous it would be.

I’m an athlete, I played tennis on the boy’s tennis team and taught tennis pro. The captain of my volleyball team, number one on my badminton team, I always considered myself an athlete. But then I get on the aikido floor and I’m a dork. Complete stepping on people’s toes not knowing what to do and I was so uncoordinated. Nobody really wanted to train with me. There’s a protocol in aikido where you’re usually on your knees. And then when the teacher shows you, demonstrate the technique and then you bow to the person next to you. And then you start to train. People think I was so klutzy and people are usually really nice in a dojo. But I was so klutzy that people would get up and run to go train with someone else.

CK: We know on certain terms it wasn’t even subtle it’s just…

Aikido Taught Me How To Be Resilient.

Susan: No, it was not subtle and I was completely mortified I mean I was thinking every night. That I wanted to train I was thinking I would go through this thing and I’m going to be rejected. It was all of those things I don’t get it, I’m going to be rejected. But I was so fascinated by it. It felt like the biggest love-hate relationship. Every night after class, I would go back to my car and cry. I’ve never cried on the dojo floor even when I was training for my black belt test. I was working with a fifth-degree or six-degree black belt. And he actually clocked me in the jaw. I mean I was almost knocked out and I’m telling myself, I’m not crying.

I’m going to put ice on my head so I won’t cry on the dojo floor. But then I cried pretty much every night because it was so difficult and it brought joy.

CK: What kept you going through in spite of all that physical pain or even emotional pain? the whole internal resistance of inadequacy like beating yourself up. And all of that stuff like what kept you going?

Susan: Yeah and somebody would do it but it was with me it was more like. There’s the self-analysis and the difficulty in being so clumsy. Thinking just being on the dojo floor and in aikido, there’s no way you can hide. While my practice and media training are all about not hiding, like showing yourself. We can still have methodologies to hide but on the aikido floor, there is nowhere to hide.

So I think that all of my issues came up too, so you asked me what kept going. It was the most fascinating practice and philosophy of aikido is to turn your lead into gold. And that’s what I wanted to do. I mean, I could see all my lead.

I thought I have a lot of lead here that can be transformed on the Aikido floor into gold. I mean everything comes up where for example if somebody grabs you too hard, how to let them know without being bossy. You have to protect yourself, you have to protect others like it’s sort of everything. Even when beginners or when I became a black belt. I would have beginners telling them what to do and you go okay I can handle this a number of ways. You never want to shame anyone but you also want to share protocols and how we train.

But my philosophy also is “Does this have anything to teach me? Are they right? Is this something that can help me? or is it a time when I need to share a lesson?”. Actually on the dojo floor you don’t give instruction to another student unless it’s asked for.

CK: Yeah. What you’re sharing here I want to underline this real quick. So in the Chinese culture, there’s a lesson that’s passed down basically that said “Wài yuán nèi fāng 外圆内方” means on the inside it’s rectangular. I let who you are but on the outside, it’s circular. As a way to play nice to be cordial with everyone else. So he said what you’re talking about here is actually navigating that space of being grace as. At the same time knowing who you are and delivering who you are to others.

Susan: Ordering the message, there was one kid who was very tall he grew really fast. He was eight, very ADD. At one point, he wasn’t paying attention. So I hit him, but it was not hard. But I thought that was more effective than saying, “If you don’t pay attention, I’m going to throw you and you could get hurt.” So I just hit him really lightly because that was the kindest thing to do at the moment. To bring him here and for the rest of the lesson, he was there. And paying attention because it was dangerous to him if he didn’t.

CK: I like that, that’s the kindest thing at the moment.

Communicating Using Your Body On The Aikido Floor.

Susan: I think that goes for everything particularly like as for all of us what’s the kindest way. That we can handle this situation I was just reading and rereading some of my notes. I think it was Elena VanZandt who said: “Do I need to say this? Do I need to say this now? Am I the right person to say it?” And I thought those were really interesting questions in terms of verbal especially for women in verbal self-defense too. Like who is on the receiving, we always have to think about who is on the receiving end of it.

And what are the consequences and the conclusion what do we actually want to achieve through that communication? On the Aikido floor, when you’re throwing someone you want to have that spot in the mind of where you’re throwing them. You have to be very intentional about it because you also have to protect them. You can’t throw them, everybody’s throwing at the same time, it could get dangerous. So you can throw somebody into another person. You always have to be aware not only of what you’re doing but of the other person. And the kindest way to throw them, to not hurt them I mean that’s the philosophy of Aikido. As well it’s to do the least harm to your opponent even if someone is attacking you.

CK: If you don’t mind going into that I mean there’s a lot of life lessons just right there. What you just shared, right? What is the kindest thing? Then being environmentally aware and at the same time not too purposefully have the maximum damage to your opponent. Which is very different than let’s say the MMA war, right? The whole point of it is you want to destroy the other person versus Aikido is about to practice.

So I’m curious to know, this is more of philosophy and more inquiry. One person’s point of view is more about like the social justice warrior, right? If it’s not me who will say this, this person will never learn the lesson. Let me just exert myself versus what you shared, “What is the kindest way?” Such that this person received the message and if this person doesn’t necessarily receive the message. Then perhaps you don’t say it. I’m curious now how you navigate that space especially. This is the verbal, the words, this is your crap. I’m curious to know as a warrior, noble warrior. So with words where do you stand on that? Do you just boom! let me deliver justice because if it’s not me then who? Or what’s the kindest way that I deliver this?

How Do You Navigate Your Words In The Kindest Way.

Susan: Yeah I wish I could say that I thought was always doing it the kindest way. Here’s the thing it’s not my business whether somebody gets it or not that’s number 1. And I think in media training the number 1 thing is not to take things personally. But also there’s only one person that we can control and that’s ourselves and that’s a really big job. And it’s an ongoing process throughout our lifetime right so you’re never trying to control another person. And it’s the same in Aikido but in like media training when you’re on TV or a podcast like this. I’m not trying to direct you and what you ask me. You can ask me anything and I’m going to answer what I want. However, you are gracious and gave me the liberty not everybody will.

And certainly, at the higher levels of TV, reporters, and hosts can be very pointed. But the whole training of media training and Aikido whatever that is, is to master yourself. You say only what you came to say to the audience in the way that you believe. That is how you want to serve. So I think the intentionality is first, “What’s my deepest intention? and how do I want to serve?”

And then words come from that and in my media training practice. I ask that question 1st “What’s your deepest intention, how do you want to serve, and what’s your big vision?” And then number 2 “What do you want for yourself personally, professionally, physically, financially, spiritually, emotionally?” And then the last question and what I’m asking you there because media can give you the whole world. It can give you connections to people, it can give you financial success and emotional happiness. Whatever it is that you’re looking for we want to be very clear about that. And then the 3rd thing is “What you want your audience to do.” What is your purpose? It’s not to be famous but it’s to grow your business. To expand your horizons or whatever, if you’re on a book tour.

Or you’ve got a new technology that you want to get into the world to help people. But then, what do you want them to do? Are they visiting your brick-and-mortar store? Are they coming to your website and buying a program or a course or are you getting more speaking engagements? Whatever that is, we’re very intentional about it. And to only be in this “Aikido media training podcast interview” Or whatever to just let go of all of that and to prepare and plan. And practice so you can free to be spontaneous. That’s why we do role play we actually do the actual situations.

Because you don’t know how you’re going to respond like I can go through mentally all the time. What I want to do on the mat and I watch videos and then you’re actually on the mat. And you’ve got somebody else’s body up against yours and it’s a whole different thing. And the media is the same, you can practice and then the hot lights of the TV. Or we’re doing a countdown are you ready boom the cameras are on there are people out there. How do you respond now when you’re asking me questions maybe that I wasn’t prepared for.

CK: Yeah, let me do a quick recap okay so what you said about your framework in terms of who you’re working with. People who are thinking about even media at all are, what’s your intention? Right? How are you serving audience number 1 and then what is the intended outcome that you want? 2nd how to be financially, relationally, reputationally and all these things for you then and what was the 3rd I can’t remember.

Susan: What do you want your audience to do?

CK: Right! That’s right, the call to action. What is the call to action and then have all that intentionality in your head train, train, train. Such that you can on the floor with lights on throw away the plan and just being flow. Is that rough, is that an accurate reflection of what you said?

Reaching The Flow.

Susan: Yes and I do want to say yes you can be in the flow. But if you haven’t done the practice, if you haven’t done the 10,000 repetitions. What happens in our brain and I know you’re a scientist is that when we get nervous and cortisol kicks in it blocks our short-term memory that’s why you want it ingrained in mental and muscle memory. So whether you’re on the Aikido floor doing physical repetitions or you’re in a role-play situation where you’ve gone through. Where I have shouted at you or put you on the spot. Asked you crazy questions that we go through the worst-case scenarios so you can be relaxed. Those can be personal questions, those can be professional questions just anything to throw you off.

And can you come back to center and like you and I just did some breathing. So everything is about the breath and not everything but I mean the breath is when we get thrown off-center. To take the breath to the ground to settle to come back to center at all times. So it’s not that we won’t get thrown off no matter how skilled we are. And the founder of Aikido said this: “It’s not that I don’t get thrown off-center. It’s just I get back to the center so fast you don’t see me.” And that’s the eventual goal right. Sometimes when you see people on TV they’re frozen or they’ve been shocked. That’s fine if that happens all of a sudden. You’re like stunned, you’re like what? That’s alright, you can still you have your moment of shock you take a breath. You get back to center and you say what you came here to say.

CK: Yeah. Actually I’m curious after working with thousands of people be on TV. In the spotlight, in my mind personally for me. It’s not I don’t even want to go there it’s just not, not right.

Susan: I know so you are there. You’re there. You’re there.

CK: I know. So we’re going to come back to that in a moment but what I want to ask you is this. What is the worst, I guess the most intrusive questions or the most shocking thing that a reporter or some journalist would just say and how did your client respond?

Handling Aggressive Questions on TV.

Susan: Yeah, I love that question because there have been so many questions. I did have a client on Fox News at one point. It was a very…I can’t tell you what the situation was, but it was a very controversial situation where some people had died. He had media training, he was very skilled and we had worked for a couple of years. And there was no warm-up. The woman reporter was just you were this person’s mentor at one point then he’s responsible for these people dying. How do you feel about that? And so we rehearsed a whole number of points about how one is responsible for oneself. And so we had rehearsal so he was able to stay even with that. She asked it really aggressively too.

CK: So the tone was..

Susan: Very aggressive it jumped right in usually a host is going to warm you up. At least with the first question typically even an uncontroversial they may not be as sharp. Everybody’s different but we had already role played all of that, all of that worst-case scenario. We had done all the worst-case scenarios for that particular situation because there were also legal implications. We needed to do things in a certain way so we had won all of that. Now, other situations when you asked me what I do for each person it’s very individual because they have their own individual stuck points and personality triggers and that’s what we want to locate. Like what trips you up, what throws you off what kind of questions are hard for you.

So with each person, it’s different and it could be something really personal. And typically men hosts will be more aggressive and pointed like Bill O’Reilly. I trained people to be on Bill O’Reilly in 60 Minutes. So those are more pointed and energetically very cutting and direct. Women oftentimes the question will be more invasive.

CK: What does that mean?

Susan: Invasive means more intrusive or personal. So I might say to you a question that would be completely inappropriate. Like, “CK how’s your sex life this week?” or “How many people have you slept with?”

CK: Oh like Howard Stern type questions?

Susan: Yeah, yeah and I had a client on Howard Stern. I think he was asking her, “What’s your bra size?”. This is about transitioning so we talked about like what’s your bra size? And then “I’m so happy you asked about that because the biggest question that a woman with breast cancer is how’s my bra going to fit?” And she was talking about death and breast cancer just transitioned right into it. Yeah that’s a big concern for me and other women. So again this is an Aikido technique you’re not resisting it. You’re not going “I’m not going to tell you about my bra size” it’s how can you go with it. And the transition to what you want to say that’s important to the audience.

CK: I so appreciate that so as you’re speaking the parallel processing in my mind, the image in my mind. It’s really like dojo training because just the whole idea is you train, train, train. But then during sparring and actual fights then you’re able to basically take anything and do “yes and”. It’s not like I’m going to totally block you because then you absorb everything rather it’s “yes and”. Then you use aikido techniques to use the momentum and redirect it elsewhere. Because to me that’s grace in display, grace emotion. If I say no I don’t want to answer that’s okay but your kind of the interview. The energy which is you don’t look as graceful on TV.

Susan: That was another thing I was so not graceful on the Aikido floor I’m still not.

CK: I don’t know I mean you’re pretty graceful to me.

On How to Appreciate Compliments.

Susan: You’re very sweet I appreciate that I’m going to take that compliment in. That’s another thing that is very hard for many of us is to receive, to receive that compliment. And if you don’t take that in and create that energetic circle you’re stopping all that good energy. Because I know this from science I think it’s 10, we have to hear 10 great things to counteract 1 negative. Usually, we let the negative 1 stab in our heart and stay and we always remember it. But the compliment, would be “I’m going to remember this compliment CK said I was graceful and see if I can expand that.” Because there are other places in life where I am graceful.

I am a graceful tennis player. I am a graceful walker. I am graceful in watering my plants around the house. So I want to reinforce that goodness that you’ve just said. So I would take what you say and see if I can multiply it. That’s how we train ourselves and train our minds too, to really be aware of what’s happening. Even me, saying that I’m not graceful puts that out there I’m not perfect. I do it all the time myself and it’s about recalibrating like we just did together.

CK: So perfect example. I’m sure your clients especially if they’re new to the whole idea of being in front of the camera.  I actually include myself totally in that realm still. I’m not comfortable speaking in the camera even though I do it a lot and I’m more comfortable now than let’s say a few years ago. The question I have for you is people especially high performers, the overachievers. They tend to be very, very critical of themselves.

So how do you coach them such that they can’t pay attention to what they’re doing right versus “Oh my god, I don’t sound like Susan or CK” or whoever they admire on media. I’d say “Look at that person, that person is so good I’m so not that” and they’re I hate my voice. I hate the way I look, I have this weird tweak or twitch or whatever like how do you make sure? How do you gently guide them toward positive reinforcement rather than “Oh my god, this is not for me I don’t want to do this.”

Susan: Okay so I had this client very high performer. She had given one talk at her clinic and we were I was preparing her for 1440 and we were talking, we were working this was before COVID. Working in her living room I was showing her how to use her body, and how to use the stage. How to interact with the audience I mean because she’d really never done this before. And this was after we had crafted this talk into 20-20 minutes. She said to me when we were in the kitchen “Oh my god, do you think I’m ever going to be any good at this?” And I told her “This is your talk number 2!” I mean, she was phenomenal of course she was so gracious and gorgeous and fluent.

And when she gave her talk at 1440, she said “Oh my god I could see that I was the only one who was media trained there.” Was it perfect? No of course not, but because she doesn’t have the experience yet of even knowing. But, she was really energetically connected to the audience like you could see where they were connected with her. Where they laughed where she said things that were connected. And so when we watched that I said here’s what you did it’s about pointing out. Here’s what you did right and here’s where you connected with the audience. Also started becoming aware of your own skills so we always look at what did you do right first.

So this is after I let people criticize themselves because they have to.

CK: So you don’t stop them you just let them go.

Criticize Yourself Positively.

Susan: I let them go. You l know you have to get it out and sometimes that comes first. I need to say all the horrible things that I did. I would be “Okay, let it all out. Let’s talk about it to get it all out” and then they’ll be okay after. What did you do well and what do you want to keep and then all those things that they said. That they wanted to change what they didn’t like about themselves? Those are the things that we work on and it’s an iterative process and it’s a process that you can do obviously in front of your webcam if you’re doing a broadcast or podcast everything is video now, right? So turn on your webcam people and start to see what happens. For example, I’m a slow blinker. I can’t do anything about that. Do I like it?

CK: Wait! Hold on.

Susan: I’m a slow blinker. Blink.

CK: That’s the thing, that’s the thing you criticize yourself about…what?

Susan: Well, it’s like “why am I blinking so slow?” That’s the way I blink. So I’m not going to worry about that I can’t clean that.

CK: Okay, okay.

Susan: What I’m saying is I have to focus on what I can change, my pattern. Unless you’re rapidly blinking, when you’re nervous. I have some clients who would frown or blink really fast. Yes, we’re going to work on those things because of what you do under pressure. We want to see what happens under pressure because oftentimes people are completely different when they’re under pressure. And that’s what we want to see what’s your default what happens under pressure. Talking about twitches or weirdo things that people do they might smack, frown or whatever it is they do we want to see it. And say “Oh this is what happens, this doesn’t happen when you’re relaxed. But this is what’s happening when you’re under pressure. Let’s be aware of it.” Then just that iterative process like we are now. I’ll just say frown. So you start to become aware of it a frown and then I’ll also do the same.

When you’re doing something well and you’ll say you just smiled appropriately. I feel really warm, I feel connected, let’s keep you smiling during that part of what you’re talking about.

CK: So I have a question okay let’s use the younger CK as an example. I remember the days when I was fresh in toastmasters not even media in general. Just general people right, totally nervous. And people would say hey you’re not smiling you look like a robot. So I would go like this (showing a forced smile). Because I just couldn’t connect, so I knew mechanically how to do it. But subconsciously, I just didn’t relate to that so how do you help them in addition to the mechanics.

How To Naturally Sync With The Audience.

Susan: Right now you’re a really natural smiler. Right now, you smile naturally. So we want to say what makes you smile, petting a dog because I love dogs. I love animals it makes me super smile. So what can you get, I was working with the CEO of a national magazine and he was a little wooden. He was very accomplished a triathlete and super accomplished in many areas and he was kind of wooden. And I was there with his marketing person and in conversation before we were actually turning on the camera. He had been talking about his daughter. I think it was the youngest daughter but one of his daughters. He really was talking about her so I said….

CK: His favorite, his favorite. I got it.

Susan: I didn’t want to say that but it’s his favorite daughter. It was his favorite daughter. I said think about your daughter and the latest thing that you just did with her that you were so happy about. And then we turned on the camera. He was in that natural state. The other thing is that you want your face everything that you do, say, aren’t think, to be an alignment from your words, to your website, to your facial expression to your body language. So if I’m talking about something happy, I love petting dogs, I naturally smile you smile too. Because you were you felt it from me that’s what happens. If I’m talking about the mob that stormed the capital I’m not going to be smiling. Because that’s congruent with the information.

I think that if you’re crafting a talk, you have places in it where you know will make you happy. And that smile, you smile so you can connect with the audience so it’s about connecting with yourself first. And then saying those things that you connect with the audience. If you’re seeing people in the audience smiling at you, you’re also you’re connecting together with that experience. And science-wise when we tell stories and we sync up our brains sync together. When we start to tell stories, you and I are already getting synced that happens. To know that you’re synced with people I think is really helpful you’re not separate, you’re not synced. And I remember one of my clients was Lee Glickstein who created speaking circles.

I don’t know if you ever did a speaking circle. Oh well, it’s a speaking circle, where you don’t prepare anything you stand up and you speak. It’s terrifying for most people because I’m not going to prepare anything but you speak from your heart. But you also speak from spontaneity about anything in that moment. It’s enormously helpful for people to be and the people who are on the receiving end of it. You don’t give any kind of approval or response you just give that person complete acceptance. That’s something that is so rare for us so sometimes people just cry, just feeling that. And you also have the opportunity not to say anything and I’ve done this with groups. For example stand for one minute if you don’t want to say anything just stand.

It’s so uncomfortable, you’re just going to receive the audience’s acceptance. One minute is a very long time to receive acceptance. So now I’ve lost track of your question I was going somewhere with that. How do we be congruent, how can we smile? I want to say that Lee Glickstein had told me too. He had offered me to go to some of his seminars and I’m actually an introvert. And I don’t like groups.

CK: You are?

Susan: Yes.

CK: Great we have more in common fantastic.

Susan: You’re an introvert.

CK: Oh, big time.

Susan: I had no idea.

CK: Oh my god you don’t even know.

Controlling Your Nerves.

Susan: So here we are two introverts who are trained extroverts we’re trained on this right so it’s not comfortable. I’m so nervous. I mean I had to run to the bathroom, I always get really super nervous before any of these. I have been doing this for more than 20 years. Yes, we’ll still get nervous, yes. And to use that energy but one I wanted to think about Lee Glickstein to get back to that. I wasn’t going to take that seminar it was like a three or four-day seminar and I thought I’m terrified. And I thought my client is offering me his training for free and something that I’m really fascinated with it. It would not only be ungracious again, it’s stopping that energy of being gifted and given that I really had.

I don’t even want to use the word obligation but I had it was necessary for myself to accept. That to keep that if that’s what I say I want and it comes to me and I say stop. Then I’m not going to keep getting what I want so I accepted. One other thing that he said to me even though I was so terrified is that “If you’re terrified of speaking in front of an audience, you’re thinking of yourself as separate.” How many of us can think of that. We’re taught like oh we’re all one and all of that but in practice, it’s not that easy.

One of my mentors Asara Lovejoy yesterday in our group call was saying there’s only one thing that she didn’t say, there’s only one thing to be concerned with. But I think she said was “This is something that I practice every day, it is loving myself and loving others is not easy at all and I don’t pretend that this is an easy task.”

CK: Loving myself

Susan: And loving others.

CK: In loving others.

Susan: And loving others.

CK: And loving others.

Susan: What’s his name Charles Schulz said I love humanity it’s people I can’t stand in the peanuts, commercial. Because we are people, we are all difficult right so we were practicing yesterday in our group.

CK: I’m glad you said that by the way.

Susan: What is that?

CK: As I’m so glad you quoted the….

Susan: Peanuts

CK: Yeah, the peanuts thing. Just quick, I don’t want to digress you too much but I’m at INTJ by Myers-Briggs. So my friend always reminds me like hey you INTJ people you love humanity but you really don’t like individuals, humans. Yeah, there’s some truth to that, there’s some truth.

Reacting To People In A Loving Way.

Susan: There’s more truth that we as people are not easy to love I mean that is just a fact. Especially what’s going on politically right now, how not to hate? Whoever is on the opposite of what we believe that is we can all practice on that every single day. So what she was saying is that I forgot the exact phrase but it was something “Can I only have love in my heart? If we come from that place it circumvents what someone thinks of me.” Because we’re loving someone else first and again that is a practice. Because somebody bumps my cart in the grocery line or tries to butt in front of me. I’m pissed the first reaction. I might be pissed like who do you think you are.

Then can I have a polite response “Excuse me, excuse me. I’m not sure that you saw me in line”, “Oh, I saw you.” Whatever that exchange might be that comes in. The first reaction might be, “Who do you think you are?” To just notice that about yourself. That’s a practice that I do every day. Okay, that might be my first response and then I say settle down. And say okay, what can do, I take a breath. What’s my second-choice response? Can I respond to this in a different way that’s loving or more loving if you can’t quite get to loving. It could be a little more loving.

CK: I mean what you share is so true. However, I’m curious to know how you introduce these types of practices to your clients. Because they came to you for media training, that’s what they want right and ultimately, ultimately in my mind. I’m in total agreement with you. How do you make sure that you step into a receptive accepting audience first. Cultivating your self-love so therefore you’re not separate from your audience? How do you teach them what they really need? Do you know what I mean?

Practice Makes You More Media Ready.

Susan: Yeah, so this wasn’t a client of mine but this was a call for a potential client. That just happened the other day she’s a black woman in business in an all-white world. She was very natural with me and her voice and everything. I’m not hearing what you’re saying about being uncomfortable. And she said “Oh it’s in front of when I’m in an audience. I’m in front of the white gaze, it’s an all-white gaze and I’m a black woman and I get flustered.” I was “Okay, I can I can totally understand that. I totally empathize with that and you’re thinking about what are people thinking of you. So that’s the first thing that we need to reverse is not to be thinking about what somebody else is thinking of you.”

But rather what did I come here to give and stay focused on that. This is a process because you need to stand in front of those 100 white people. Maybe 10 at first or other people first to get what it feels like to have 100 white gazes on me as a black woman. Still, be able to say what I came here to say. It’s not something that necessarily is going to flip overnight but it is practiced how many times can I do it? It is a moment-by-moment practice, there you are talking oh I’m self-conscious, I just had this experience yesterday. I’m going to finish with her and then I’ll tell you about my experience.

If you’re thinking, you go in there and you say I have these points that I want to cover they’re really important. That I want to connect to my audience and this is what I want to give. And then in the middle of it, you’re thinking oh my god 100 people are staring at me. And I wonder if my stockings are something and my boobs coming out of my whatever. Whether it’s physical or it’s like they’re hating me they’re not getting it, you take your breath. So it’s all about breathing and then practicing.

With my clients, I train them “Okay stop, breathe, ground, think about your feet going deep, deep, deep into the earth. Re-center yourself, it just takes a second but it is a practice and then come back to your purpose. What are you here to speak about to give and get back on track.” So that is the practice and I’m not going to pretend that it’s easy, right? But that is the practice of doing that over and over and over again. Just yesterday I was giving a webinar and I could tell right away. It wasn’t landing because I had created it for consumers and I was talking to PR professionals. And I just sat in the middle of the thing.

CK: Hold on so you intellectually knew that, how do you what are they doing such that you receive. Okay, whatever I’m saying it’s not landing.

Susan: For them, you mean for the webinar that I just did?

How To Work Around When It’s “Not Landing” With The Audience.

Susan: It was a webinar so I could only see a couple of people on Zoom. It wasn’t they weren’t into it was the feeling. I knew because I was a publicist before this and I was speaking to a publicist. As I was going through my material which we had talked about ahead of time. I just realized this is not granular enough for them. So I did two things I said “I’m going to skip ahead a number of these slides like I had. To skip through a whole bunch of slides because this isn’t going to work, this isn’t going to work, this isn’t going to work. Then I said “I have another document I don’t have up. I’ll need to when you’re asking questions whether I’m going to pull it up that I think would be more appropriate for you, that was more granular.”

Then I did the best I could. Because I kind of had to follow my slides because it was a presentation, but it wasn’t fun. And I was terribly uncomfortable and I started thinking oh my god I’m so not delivering on my promise. I had that moment of that sinking feeling and going I’m embarrassing myself in front of my PR professionals. Then there was somebody in the audience that I knew was my peer and I’m thinking now I’m shaming myself in front of her. And I thought back to the center. What am I here to do?

I got to give these people value and give what I promised so I have to figure that out. How to do that on the spot and I said “Let’s jump to Q&A, here’s what I have. I go let me answer your questions.” Then we went to Q&A and I got into my groove. I could spontaneously answer those questions. And really be very specific in terms of helping them. But like half an hour, not good. So what I do in review is I wrote a note to the people who invited me saying “Oh god, this is what happened. I’m really sorry and I hope I redeemed in the second half.” And they said “Yeah you did” I got the email back this morning.

CK: Well, I think thank you for using yourself as an example of what’s like to be in the dojo, right? In real-time how you actually lost control for a moment but you’re able to regain control, regain composure. Regain sovereignty and then really serve your highest good and deliver in that although a different format a different mechanism. To serve the people that were on the webinar. I think what you share for anyone listening who’s even thinking about any kind of media exposure. This is live right because I would assert what you just share is one of the nightmare scenarios. That they never want to step into.

Setting Yourself To Be Spontaneous.

Susan: I agree I didn’t think I was stepping into it, it was horrifying absolutely. And by the way, it would have been way easier had I not had my slides too. Because I was sort of married to the slides. So to me, I mean it’s very easy for me to be spontaneous, I actually prefer that to a structured talk. But most people don’t, most people prefer the structured talk but either way, it doesn’t matter right. So it would have been easier for me had I not had to sort of manage those slides too. I could have just managed myself and the information on the spot but it’s also about asking what you want.

I do want to share one other thing that happened to me it was with Marcia Wieder. Who’s the dream coach. I went to one of her seminars. She had invited me as her guest and I had wanted to meet. One of my clients was attending that seminar. So I wanted to meet Marcia, had I met Marcia before? No! I hadn’t met her before we’d just been on the phone. And then when we were there Marcia said to me “Hey do you want to come up and talk for 15 minutes?” And I said “Sure.”

CK: What an opportunity sure.

Susan: There are hundreds of people, I don’t have anything prepared. And I go running into the bathroom because I’m freaking out. I have so much to say, I don’t even know where to begin. And my friend my client who I already adored came in she said “Are you all right?” I go “Yes. I need you to leave me alone.”

I was just breathing, I was meditating on the toilet. This is what I’m doing. I’m meditating on the toilet going, “I need to focus, I need….” And then I thought, I don’t really want to stand up there and just talk for 15 minutes. I love in conversation and so I went out to Marcia. And I said “Can we do this in an interview format? Can you just we’re both sitting on these stools on the stage, can you just ask me anything we want.” She’s a great PR person, she knows what to ask. I said “You can ask me this and this or anything you want.” and that’s what we did.

So, it’s also about when you have those freakout moments you don’t have to do what the other person’s asking you. You can make a suggestion and say what about this to something. That you’re comfortable with because I’m completely comfortable with that format. I was more comfortable trying to figure out, out of everything I know. How am I going to craft this into 15 minutes?

CK: It reminds me of how Richard Branson rarely gives a solo speech. He’s always the interview.

Susan: I hate it, I just it’s not my thing. I don’t like it, I’m bored with myself and to give it over and over again. If I’ve given it three times, I’ll be “Oh brother.” I like to do things differently every single time and that’s not conducive to paid speakers who have the same speech.

Every time and I’m it’s just not my thing. If it’s your thing that’s great. One client who’s a speaker I don’t know how many she gets paid for now it was $20,000 a talk. At that time he gave that speech like 345 days a year. The same one. $8000 a pop.

CK: That’s really interesting I guess we can go down that rabbit hole it reminds me of a stand-up comedian. How they just go on the road and just craft or talk and once they have them enough material. Then they will monetize it by selling it to Netflix by doing a Netflix special.

Susan: Which I love, I love those methods.

CK:  Yeah I do as well I’m a huge fan of stand-up comedy just in general. But I wonder if there is a way to have a similar model for speakers but that’s probably. Not for a conversation here. I’m curious if you have any thoughts there at all.

Susan: No I think there are two types of speakers. I really think that there’s a type of speaker. That’s my client that has everything perfectly timed, Jerry Seinfeld does this too. I heard you reference him in one of your other podcasts.

CK: Oh nice thank you.

Honing Yourself With Media Training.

Susan: All right well crafts everything down to the second. He has honed his craft in front of the audience. And knows exactly when they’re going to laugh and where to pause. So, there’s a science and a beauty in that. To have something down so much where you can predict people’s behavior that’s really interesting. My client obviously had that too because he had certain things that were very physically acting out on the stage.

Then there was one of my other clients who was a Sufi master and a doctor, a medical doctor. And we were talking it was in my soundbite course and he kept asking me over and over “Susan, what am I going to say exactly in my talk?”.  His university was in danger of becoming unfunded and so he needed money now. So I said, “You are a Sufi master, you know how to read energy. You know how to read people, so yes you craft your talk and then read the audience.”. So this is the other way, to craft your talk and know when to divert from your talk. Based on what’s going on with the audience and how you can read the audience.

If you’re not a reader of the audience then that’s not for you to give your time to talk. And see where people respond and be scientific about it. So, for him, he spoke and he said, “Susan, there was a moment where I just needed to shift everything. I meant to talk about and I started talking about something different. And at the end of my talk, a person came up and wrote a check for me, and handed it to me for $100,000. So I could keep my university and then the second person came up. And wrote me a second check for another $100,000.

CK: Wow, beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

Susan: It’s beautiful because both ways work. There’s no one right way for you to experiment. And it may be a combo.

CK: So on this podcast, we use the yin yang sign to illustrate the point that we’re making a lot. Let me share this with you for the audience to listen and use what you share as an example. The yang way is very directed intentional scientific. The yin way is more of an inflow and I think also what you share beautifully is he is already a master in his own domain. He’s not just trying to remember things that he learned last weekend. So that also makes it a lot easier and similar to your talk as well right you already know. The material you just needed to reshuffle in a way to best serve the audience. Is that accurate effectively?

Susan: Yes, yes, yes, I knew that material very well.

CK: So I want to shift gear a little bit. I want to also use this as a teaching moment for others. How did you refine on who is it that you want to help and how did you find that message? That you wanted to devote your life towards or and or you can use yourself as an example. You can use your clients as an example? How did you help them find who their avatar is like who they want to serve? And how do you find them and help them find that message that it’s theirs? It’s their soul message that they shared the world.

How To Find The People You Want To Help.

Susan: So how I did that for myself was that when I was writing Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul. I had a very young intern. Who was starting was helping edit the book so he didn’t know what he could or couldn’t do in my book. And when I was writing Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul my first editor who was a woman said “Hey, what you’re not writing a lifestyle book. You’re writing a book on PR.” and I said “I beg to differ with you, I am writing a lifestyle book. I am writing about how you do PR, is how you are and how you act in your life. It is a continuous stream.” Thankfully, she left the woman who objected to my book. And I got to work with the kid who didn’t know what he couldn’t ask for.

I got to write the book that I wanted and what I wanted. And people up on Amazon one of my favorite interviews was a woman magazine editor who said, “This book has helped me raise my children. This is the best parenting book I’ve ever read.”. “Hallelujah!” I said, mission accomplished. Because I wrote Sell Yourself Without Selling Your Soul many, many years back. This was right after 9/11. I wrote the book so it has no sales, sex, war, or sports jargon in it. Even aggressive jargon because how we speak is how we think is how we are. And that really wasn’t that much of a concept at that point and the social entrepreneurship thing didn’t even exist.

But HarperCollins asked me they wanted to write my own catalog copy. And I wrote in there, “Susan Harrow is a leader in the conscious business movement.”. There was no such thing and they printed it. And I was oh my god I didn’t know they were going to print my thing word for word. And then publishers weekly repeated it. How powerful words are what I wanted to do, my niche was people who were conscious of businesses when that was not a word. It was people who are out in the world doing amazing things, who actually have the ability to affect change. But they affect that change by themselves by embodying it. My favorite saying from Gandhi is “You are the message; That you are the message.”

So that’s why I say everything you do say is and think needs to be in complete alignment before you offer. Because it’s working on yourself. I’ve heard your podcast, when people say they want to change the world I’m thinking well, are they? Willing to change themselves because that’s how you change the world.

CK: But okay so that’s what you have honed in on. My question was how did you land? There was it more of an intuitive thing, was it more iterative practice, was it more just..I don’t know why but I’m meant to serve these people, how did you end up there?

Susan: Well I think it’s the way I was raised. My dad was an orphan and someone put him through Cornell. People were kind to him. I grew up in Palo Alto next to Stanford University. Every Thanksgiving, we had international students come and spend thanksgiving because they didn’t have anywhere to go.

CK: I was one of those international students.

Susan: Where we would have had you over to our house.

CK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Improvising In Media Training.

Susan: Just enjoyed family time with strangers. We had this huge table in the house. Steve Jobs bought the house next door to us we had this table which actually set. I mean it was you could seat 30 people and we had 30 people at the table. So it was really fun. I think it was just that my parents have always, we’re all like that. My brother is a musician. My other brother has a business in Hawaii of security alarms and he is a philanthropist. He goes to Nepal and the Philippines and rebuilds devastation. All I can say is we were raised that way, it was in my blood.

It was an evolution, I think that’s the way. And then I wanted to address how to do the other second part of the question was about my clients. You asked me, how I help them find it. Okay, very organic because media training is a lot like improvisational jazz or improvising.

I listen to the way that someone speaks naturally. I take them through a process of questioning. I listen to the way that they speak naturally. Then I start to pluck out the jewels and point them out. Now, neuroscience points this up. When someone is a jazz musician when they go into the riff or the improvisation it’s a different part of the brain. It’s not the conscious part of the brain. And maybe then we can lead into the one command, from here like doing that process together. Might be a perfect point so they’re in a place of not thinking and it’s a different part of the brain.

It just goes we all have that ability. I’ve noticed with everyone that I work with when they’re just relaxed and talking to me, their stories come out almost perfect. So what we’re just doing is shaping the story and yes they’re formats that I show them. That these are successful formats that other people have used. If your format fits into that naturally I’m going to show you that process. Otherwise, I’m going to reverse engineer it for you so you know how you’ve told the story successfully, naturally, so you can do it again. The process starts to become more conscious so you can repeat it. Because you do need to be able to repeat it because I want to work myself out of a job.

If you know how to do this and here’s what happens you may be on a media appearance or a podcast and you get thrown a loop. You need to know how to create your own messages and sound bites on the spot. If you have certain formats, you can sort of wrangle it in. You can wrangle it in if you don’t know anything. It’s wide open and that’s much harder to pull things in rather than having formats. Rather than a song structure and therefore, you can and you might know five of them. And you can pull that out on the slot. Yeah, you’re smiling about that. So neuroscience proves now, that when we’re relaxed and we drop down that’s when things just flow. So essentially we want to get back to that flow state. Relaxation, not being self-conscious, and not thinking about yourself.

So that’s the practice is getting back to our naturalness. And one of my clients said to me, I think it was in a class she said, “Susan, you’re telling us to be ourselves but we need to practice at it.”. I said “Yeah actually you do. You do need to practice being yourself because there’s so much coming at us that throws us off ourselves and that is coming back to our quote-unquote “Best Self” at the moment right not the snappy self.”

CK: To construct itself, yeah, for sure.

Susan: Yeah, yeah and to be, to be able to be relaxed enough to be in that state. So things flow perfectly which they will.

CK: Yeah for sure did you want to do the one command before I asked for my follow-up?

Susan: Yeah so one of the things where okay so everybody has issues myself included CK. We all have we all have our..

CK: We’re all perfectly imperfect human beings.

Susan: We are yeah so Suzuki wrote she says you’re perfect as you are and there’s always room for improvement. One of the things that happens with all of my clients is they have certain personality, triggers stuck points patterns. Programs, beliefs that are holding them baCK no matter what the level is right like millionaires spiritually . The Sufi master we all I mean the Sufi master  he was  at the UN. He’s negotiating peace treaties we all have our issues it doesn’t matter how high a level you are up politically. Spiritually, and intellectually. So I started getting trained in the one command because I like love speed. And I like to have things shift really quiCKly and I wanted a way just like that’s why I did aikido. So I could get things more embodied in media training.

I wanted to be able to move my clients faster forward faster. And so they could get what they wanted with media. I started training with Sarah Lovejoy in the one command both one-on-one and in a group to get certified. So the one command has helped millionaires, billionaires, heads of state and people entrepreneurs like you. And me shift their patterns programs beliefs instantly on the spot sometimes it takes longer because they’re layers. And layers but this is a process that is sort of the missing link to self-help because it’s not outside yourself. It’s inside yourself it’s not manifestation which is outside it’s about you tapping into your greater self. And the availability of what already is for you so that’s a quiCK explanation of it. And the results are that  people go from 10 million to 100 million or from a thousand to 10,000.

Or talking about  that or like when I was working with Asara I’m allergic to gluten. And we cleared that right like no naturopath, nobody had there like we can clear you of everything. But not gluten working with that yeah and I I’m happy to share more examples of what I’ve done. With my clients too because I’m  starting to work with my clients on this it’s new to me. So I’m not an expert in it yet but I’m happy to share what I know in this. So I’ll explain the so the great thing that you need to know is that this is a very simple. Process that can shift your beliefs patterns programs in the moment and then you watch what arises. So  what to work on next are there boots on the ground meaning do you have to then.

Do things physically right like if you have a mindset and  you’ve always had a poor relationship. With your mother is this just going to like shift that well  that could take a few layers. Right to be able to do that but it’s starting to be in that awareness. So I just wanted to be clear about that that people go  a million dollars. Isn’t going to be plopped on your doorstep.

CK: Totally it’s so to illustrate what you’re articulating here what Susan is saying is it will shift immediately subjective. Reality the objective reality is still going to take time you’re going to still have that circumstances challenges whatever. But over time giving this new shifted subject to reality you may look at this challenge or problems newly. And new solutions will come arise is that an accurate reflection?

Susan: And some things do happen instantly and some things happen a month, three months, a year later right. So there is no sort of space time it is it is now. I’ll go through the steps and then I’ll lead you through them so you don’t have to do. Then you just listen to the steps first so  where we’re going and then we’ll go into them. And you can and then you just do it with me and CK you and I can actually do this together. And I’ll share with you how as soon as I tell the steps. So the first step is to ground so what we’ll do is we’ll put our feet on the floor. And if you’re laying down that’s fine it doesn’t matter where you are it’s about rooting yourself in the earth. That’s number one.

Number two is to align in your heart. Number three is to go into theta and we do that by just rolling our eyes up our eyes. Will be closed but we roll them up to the like where you’re looking out your forehead. Or looking at the top of your head that’s mechanically going to put you into theta which is a different. State than we are normally which is beta and that’s going to open your mind to if you’re calling like. Subjective reality that is going to be opening your mind to what’s the closest to the dream state. You get out of your conscious thinking and into the possibility of all that is. And what this process does is it actually changes your neurology, your biology and your DNA.

So that can all happen simultaneously just by doing this process you’re already in a different state of mind. We phrase a  command which is I think we’re on number four or number five we phrase a command to. And the word is I don’t know how what that does is it automatically takes you out of your linear thinking. And it also takes away your objections about like how things can’t happen and so it puts us. Into an open frame of mind and what one of my friends said that I think is so beautiful is. He said it kind of connects you to the mystery of what is because if you don’t have something. And you try to name it which is manifestation and I love Abraham hiCKs and I love all of that stuff.

So that’s working for you that’s great I’m just explaining the difference so when you try to name something. That you’ve never had before never had the experience of it how do  how to get it. So saying i don’t know how opens up the possibilities for a new thought, a new way. A new experience to come in because it hasn’t happened to you before, it hasn’t happened in as big. A way as you like. And then so I don’t know how and then I then we say whatever that is that. We don’t know how to do and that it’s what we want, it’s what we want to change remove. Or improve that’s what we’re going to name first and then we’re going to shift that. And then the last part is to say so I don’t know how I relax in front of media.

Every time I do it no matter what medium it is am I talking to a person. I only know that I do now and I am  grateful and fulfilled so the last part is being grateful. And fulfilled having granted for the process. So the way I thought we could do it together CK choose something if you would like to choose something. That you specifically would like to change remove or improve or and we can combine it with maybe people. Who want to do media or more speaking or more zoom calls because that’s up right now. We can integrate that in but if you have a particular..

CK: Yeah, sure so let me just clarify something I don’t know how. And then something that I wanted to shift.

Susan: So let’s imagine I want to shift my nervousness, when I say I don’t know how. I don’t know how I’m relaxed and grateful and feel comfortable on camera so shifting to the positive. So we’re shifting from the negative the negative nervous the positive so we’re only saying the positive. When we say the command. Sure I just want to say one more thing about the command you only do a command once. Because it is so it has shifted in the quantum field. If you might be deeper ways that we do that like you can do it for I did it. Specifically for our interview today kind of relaxing and in the flow with CK today. Because this is like a new experience.

CK: Yeah for sure. So I think for me would be to be more playful.

Susan: Okay great, all right great. So close your eyes and so what I want to say is let’s go baCK and forth. So I’ll say a command, you say the command, I’ll say a command, you say the command. So I’ll start and then you just jump in with whatever playful response you want to say. Or if it’s not playful that’s okay too it doesn’t matter. It’s just and we’ll go baCK and forth so I say something you say something. And then I’ll just bring us to a natural conclusion.

CK: I’m just taking all the instruction in so I’ll do my best.

Susan: Yeah and I’ll cue you. I’ll go CK would you like to say something and if you don’t if you go no. I have nothing to say that’s fine and I’ll just keep going so feel free if you don’t have anything. To say or if nothing pops up in the moment just let me know and I’ll show you. So, thank you for being brave and doing this because CK‘s never done this with me before.

CK: No, no this is new well this is what noble warrior is all about  like. You got some new ways to haCK consciousness let’s do it.

Susan: Yeah, yeah and what people have said about this that I really love and we’ll see. How all of you feel that it feels really easy and good and there’s no resistance to it. Because my sweetie who has done everything and  has been meditating forever. He said this is the only process I’ve never had any resistance to which I thought it was interesting. Yeah but your own experience whatever you have is fine.

CK: Beautiful let’s do it.

Susan: So close your eyes you can rest your feet on the floor if you’re lying down just lie down. And relax and feel the better the couch or whatever if you’re in a chair feel the baCK of it. You can rest your hands either open or in a mudra if you like this. Or you can have your just palms open on your knees or on the sides of a chair. Whatever’s most comfortable for you, take a deep breath in let it out, deep breath in through your nose. You can let it out through your nose of your mouth, feel your feet on the floor wherever you are. And imagine that your feet are roots going deep, deep, deep into the earth you can also imagine. That they’re jewels that they’re rubies or diamonds or gems or crystals  that go deep, deep, deep into the earth.

So they’re going deep, deep, deep all the way to the center of the earth and we’re connecting with our ancestors. With all of the experience that they’ve had before us that can help us you’re connecting with the magma. With earth with all of the creatures that are in that ground and at the same time imagine a beautiful. Beam of light coming down through the top of your head, the crown of your head all the way through your body, all the way. Through your solar plexus, all the way deep, deep, deep into the earth. So you’re connected with both the heavens and the earth and all that is possible. Then begin to draw that energy that deep supportive earth energy up through your feet, through your calves.

Through your knees, through your thighs, up to your solar plexus, up to your heart and when you reach your heart. We’re just going to align with your intention for CK it’s to be more playful for you. If it’s to be more relaxed on video on zoom to connect with people deeply to have a wonderful experience. To begin to have more love in your heart, to see the good in people, to feel comfortable within. Your own skin, to have the experience of having a good and relaxed and flow experience whatever that is for. You align that in your heart and then take a deep breath in and pull that energy from your heart. All the way up through the your forehead and hold it, so hold right at the forehead your breath hold. Hold, hold and then let it out.

Light before you, light behind you, light above you, light below you, light to the right of you. Light to the left of you, light inside of you, light, light, light you are a body of light. You are filled with light. Then gently roll your eyes up into your head as if you’re looking into your forehead this is what’s going. To take us into theta and then put your conscious mind up through your head take a trip up through. Your forehead, up through your head, up through the ceiling, up, up, up past the stars, up, up, up. Past the galaxies, up, up, up past the milky way, up, up, up past Saturn and Jupiter. And all the planets, up, up, up past all the galaxies and the universes and anything.

And you’re going to come to a velvety blaCK a mist and then you’re going to pop up through that. Mist into the white luminosity of all that is and this is where the pure potential is you can do anything. And be anything and feel anything and your greatest self you have access to that and you have access. To the powerful consciousness of all the beings and people and anything that came before us. I don’t know how I feel more playful and alive and exhilarated. I only know that I do now and I am grateful and fulfilled. And then CK you can add in something that you would like as well.

CK: With the same command I don’t know how?

Susan: I don’t know how and then it just a variation of being playful. Or anything that pops into your mind.

CK: Yeah to be totally relaxed doing our podcast. So my guests can co-create beautiful content to inspire all my listeners.

Susan: Great I don’t know how I inspire people with just who I am with my words, with my playfulness. With my beingness I only know that I connect to people deeply and they connect baCK to me. And that brings me joy and it brings me more of everything I want. I only know that it is so now and I’m grateful and fulfilled. If you want to add in another you can and you can say I don’t know how. And then say a command that you wish.

CK: I don’t know how to be totally present and just enjoy the moment with all of my guests. To inspire everyone who  is hungry for what we’re co-creating what we have collected over the years.

Susan: I don’t know how I attract and the people that need to hear my message see case message come. And find him and find me and find what they need, I only know that those people find us. And find that wonderful exploration and feel enlivened by it and feel just as present and as relaxed as CK. I only know that I do now and I’m grateful and fulfilled. I don’t know how I open my mind to new experiences to the things that I want the things that. I don’t yet have that I may not even know that are going to make me feel better. And enrich my life I only know that I do now and I’m grateful and fulfilled. I don’t know how I am so comfortable doing media and getting my message out into the world that people.

Really need to hear to help more people to connect with people to give them. What I came on this earth to give I only know that I do know and I’m grateful and fulfilled. I don’t know how I am more playful and more relaxed and just really allow any experience to come in. And follow that where it might lead me that I get the right experiences for the things that I need. For the next steps and wherever I want to go.

I only know that I do know and I’m grateful and fulfilled. I don’t know how I can be exactly who I am that I can be relaxed and who I am. And that people resonate and respond to that. I only know that I am now and I’m grateful and fulfilled. They don’t know how I can do zoom and video and podcast in media and Facebook live and Instagram. And be myself and get my message out there and have the kind of clients and customers. And sales that I want. I only know that I do now and I am grateful and fulfilled. I don’t know how I can bring in the exact amount of money and maybe actually three times more money. That I need to help my family and help others and be able to give enough away to feel comfortable.

I only know that I do now and I’m grateful and fulfilled I don’t know how I can find exactly. What I need to do on this earth at this time to be of maximum good in the world. They only know that I do now and I’m grateful and fulfilled. And then take a breath and even expand more deeply into whatever that is just you feel the expansion. Of all the molecules of your body and then we’re going to unwind, unwind, unmind any doubts. Any fears anything that’s holding us baCK unwind, unwind, unwind any kind of experiences that have happened before us unwind. Unwind, unwind and then rewind, rewind, rewind with this new experience relaxation the sense of fun this excitement. In the future that anything is possible rewind, rewind, rewind and this is where your DNA is actually changing.

So if there’s images and thoughts and feelings that are coming in just notice them now make note of them. Later this is part of your guidance just let all of that come in and then take another breath. And when you’re ready you can open your eyes and come baCK to the room.

CK: Amazing.

Susan: What did you notice? What did you notice for you?

CK: That fee of light. Number one just it’s there, it’s beautiful to always be in that space. And also, I noticed how soothing your voice is.

Susan: Oh thank you.

CK: It’s one of those voices that you can just listen to for hours and on, . So resonance  so in case you don’t have a podcast yet. In case you don’t have any kind of sound healing offering yet I highly recommend it.

Susan: I hope this is a sound healing for all of you I hadn’t thought.

CK: It’s very, very relaxing it’s very relaxing yeah, my, my, my nervous system really liked it. I like  brings me to a space what did you notice?

Susan: Yeah so, I noticed that first I had a little bit of self-consciousness because I’ve never done this before. And I really needed to focus and drop in so I could relax enough to just sort of feel. Because it’s all spontaneous like some I did this with a friend and he’s like well how did . How did you say all those things have you done these times no it was something completely different for him. And I said no I was just trying to sense what it was that you needed. And so that’s I can’t do that in my conscious mind? I don’t know if you heard  things that you needed to hear. Or that you what it was just the sound that it was but that’s my intention that people that.

I’m guided to just say what it is that but you can’t it’s hard to do if you’re nervous. About it just a warm breath.

CK: Yeah it was very beautiful I really, really appreciate it.

Susan: Thank you I’m happy to have that experience with you.  

CK: So I want to segue to some so something tactical.

Susan: Yeah let me just say this really quiCK this is something that you can do every day five minute. Or one minute or whatever I did it on a whole bunch you can do it one. You can go through this process and you can actually do it really fast I mean we did it slowly. But you can do it you can actually probably do a one-minute version for yourself so I just want to. Say this is something that you could do on any topic and you can choose one topic. I just went on a roll for a whole bunch of them it’s called staCKing so if there’s one specific. Thing that you want like I did it on our podcast but I also did it on a whole bunch.

Of other things too that I’m wanting today and one of those is to be to get more work. More work done I have a lot of things I’m doing rebranding I have so much on my plate. I’m in a coaching course with Samantha Hartley who  I mean it’s just like ah . It’s just so many things that I have on my plate and what I was asking for too is to. Whatever work or whatever I’m doing can I be in that state where I can have maximum effectiveness, efficientness. And the beauty in that state so that was one thing that I commanded for to all of my day.

To today but I also do it for specific things that I need to accomplish so I can condense time. When I want to and expand time. So if you’re asking for something tactile I know you haven’t asked for this. But I have a practice that condenses time and expands time because there’s times when we want time to expand. When we’re with our friends when we’re with our lovers whatever when we’re having a great time. We don’t want it to end so how can we stretch that. Since you open that loop, can you go into that how do you expand time how do you multiply time? Stretch time. Yeah, so part of that is getting spaciousness in your body and in your mind like how do you hear. Those messages that you need to hear I was listening to I was watching a class with RuPaul.

And he said if you do not quite right he’s fabulous.

CK: And he’s and he by the way just a quiCK queen injection he was an accidental teacher. I never thought I would like I never ever thought I would like RuPaul. But when I watch his master class like the real deal, I really like him.

Susan: Totally now he was right there throughout his class was he not like talk about presence here . Right there and I mean that is an embodiment and that’s what we’re going for an embodiment of your values. Amen of who you are not who you say you are don’t tell me who you are.

CK: There wasn’t any kind of posturing it was just  he actually did whatever work he needed. To do to let go of all that he was just there and giving his truth. And if you like it fantastic  try it on if you don’t like it fantastic . Hey good luCK to you but that’s it.

Susan: Everything that I really noticed about him is like oh my gosh how many things he’s done to get. To where he is I was like when people say  I want to be a media star. I want to be on tv oh you are not on tv it is the 10,000 iterative times. And it’s not just doing something ten thousand times it’s doing it and an iteration every single time. That you do it so it’s the 10,000 hours and then it’s also the progression of practice all the time. Like how many times he was on the stage, how many times  how afraid. He was on the stage and nervous and not knowing whether he was in the right direction or whatever. So baCK to the time and what RuPaul said is moments of stillness.

So one practice that you can do that anybody can do is do one minute an hour of breathing. And centering and stilling because sometimes people have a really hard time, I’m very active. I don’t know if you are too, I don’t have a really easy time sitting. I do a lot of my meditative work and my prayers and my thinking and my expressing while I walk. I have a notebook and I have my iPhone so sometimes I record into my iPhone or record into notes.

Sometimes I put it down whatever medium seems to work for me but I do meditations prayers. While I’m moving a lot of times but I also sit in stillness every day I do the one command. And then I sit in meditation which is not easy for me because when you’re what I love about. The one command is I keep a notebook right by my because I have tons of ideas. And I sometimes pretend that that counts as my meditation it doesn’t. Meditation is different so you can do you can I have the one command and then I go into meditation. For the stillness and then if my mind is really busy, I write those things down. So that I can continue to clear but that stillness is where the answers come whether it’s in the shower.

Whether it’s running it doesn’t matter what the practice is for you it doesn’t have to necessarily be meditation. Or stillness but something that stills your mind. So with all that where the noise is where you’re not listening to the outside world. You’re just listening to your own inside world.

CK: Yeah I still appreciate that mental model Susan I’ll share one what I do and then I’ll segue. To the question I wanted to ask you okay so on this podcast we talk a lot about. How do you actually tap and penetrate the constructive self the stories the illusions all that stuff to tap. Into that wholeness the capital itself the source the higher self whatever you call it like that place of stillness. And that is the source of new ideas messages downloads intuition whatever you call it that’s what we talk about. In the podcast a lot.

So any of these practices  one command or Ayahuasca journeys or yeah in a meditation or yoga. Or boxing or spartan race or cold bath or breathwork. Any of these are just different paths as a way to strip away these layers of constructive belief. And then really get as closer to that capital as itself. So that’s what we talk about capital itself well capital.

Susan: I thought you said capitalist I didn’t know we were going for the capital itself capital yes.

CK: One thing I need to be better at is the enunciation as an immigrant there you go. Thank you for that I appreciate it.

Susan: I haven’t I have a lot of practice so I do the one command, I do meditation. I have a walking practice, I haven’t been doing aikido, I got injured in aikido, so I actually haven’t done. It in a couple of years however I’m always practicing aikido. And I am doing some sword work on my deCK with the bokeh and Jō which is the sword and the staff.

CK: Oh, hold on before you move on is there a good teacher that you recommend if that’s something. I want to be I want to practice because I am looking for an embodiment practice especially when it comes. To bow or sword or things like that, I’m a guy what can I say.

Susan: Yeah no absolutely and  what did a photographer who was taking pictures said . When we work with the Jō or we don’t actually hit the person on the head we can we stop. Like an inch ahead and this photographer said oh my god I so wanted to like to be able to. Hit somebody on the head  so that a kind of regression thing. So my teacher is Hans Goto sensei so he’s here in San Rafael he’s an amazing teacher. He’s seventh dawn and he’s head of our lineage and where do you live?

CK: Southern California.

Susan: You’re in Southern California. I’ll see if I can get you a name of somebody there. I know there’s a teacher their teachers there and it depends on there are different lineages too depending. On what you want we’ll talk offline because there are certain ways but I love that. So practices so I have a writing practice I’m a writer. I’ve been in a writing group for many years. With my friend, my dear friend Lori Wagner who has something called wild writing by the way she’s offering. A free seven days as well and this might be a good time to mention if you want any of. My free things that are on prsecrets.com. P like Paul, R like Richard, public relations secrets.com. So if you’re wanting to further yourself with media. I have the 100-word email That Can Get the Media to Call You.

And there are lots of other free videos and masterclasses and anything that you want. So her class and the reason why it’s all the same practice just in a different form. So this practice that she does the what’s called while writing

Is that no censorship just like I train. A meter media training there’s no sense words there’s no editing when we’re talking that comes later separate process. We’re just talking through. So in the writing there’s no taking your hand off the page so we don’t do it on the computer. We do it with a pen you don’t censor yourself ever so you’re just writing from we. Lori reads a poem she exerts a couple of lines to jump off from to just get us going. Or makes a suggestion talks about it a little bit and then we write and so you can. If you get stuCK you can say I don’t know what I want to say you just write that and then you. And so it’s like 5 to 15 minutes we do and you can also write what I really want to.

Say is or what I’ve never told you before is or what I’ve held baCK, whatever that is you. Just keep writing I’m you can say like sometimes I get stuCK and I might say oh my god. This is such crap I can’t believe what’s coming out of me today here was the la  Lori said. It’s okay to write crap well I’m doing it,  going and then what happens is most of the. Time not always right but you start to drop down and you start to drop your own. And you start to get to that core that is the same thing like you do improvisation with that flow. It’s just that’s a medium to do it these are just different mediums that work on I think different parts.

Of the brain so this is the writing brain so I’m used to already doing improvisation.

In so many ways. So that’s an improv practice because there’s no censoring you’re just getting down on the page whatever it is then. We read no criticism, no commenting it’s just it just it is what it is. So that’s a practice my other practice is before I start work, I have a prayer that I say that. Is open my path before me and let me be of maximum good in the world so that’s. What I say every single day and when I’m with when I do a call like this or when. I’m with a client I always ask that I can be guided for that person’s highest good. So that is  whatever they need let it come through me. My other practice is so that oh I was listening to what I don’t know has to say his name.

André this is the cyber security guy. I have a practice that before I go to bed, I say something else so I made this up every. Thank you for everything I am and have for all I am grateful, thank you for everything I am not. And have not for all I am grateful so, both of those opposites and then I may do sometimes. I do this walking and sometimes they do this praying when I was, I was raised a catholic. So the first type of praying that I would do is say prayers really, really fast and dole them. Out to people so that’s what I learned first  Buddhists have a practice where you give you. I forgot what they call them but we do this sometimes in aikido is you. What’s the word I’m looking for.

CK: Mata? What is it Mata?

Susan: No it’s about you donate your practice to somebody but donates not the right word you give your practice. To people  what I mean so I’m giving this practice I’m offering it to help others. So I do that and then what I do what I alternate is sometimes I send out good energy. To all the people that I love and then include my neighbors so I just do that it’s more. Of an energetic practice so that’s a that’s my new prayer so I don’t like dole out prayers. Like hail Mary full of grace. That was the but that’s what I learned first like you say all these prayers and then you give them away. And that’s how you do that so this is just a different way of doing it energetically.

So I do that and then I know that André said and I want to ask him about this. Because I’m so curious that he doesn’t say things that he’s grateful for outside of himself. He only about himself I’m thinking I would run out of things to say that I’m grateful for in myself in like one night.  I’m saying like how do you think about what you’re grateful for yourself.

CK: Well it’s just it’s well I mean similar to your writing practice right you just keep going. You go yeah there’s elephant  elephant all the way down turn all the way down like..

Susan: You can’t say the same thing every single day like in my book you can’t go. Okay  I what I this is what I love about myself I mean can you like. I was thinking shouldn’t it be is it different, is it the same thing every day because when we practice. A gratitude practice you try to get more specific about what happened and start to see the smaller. And smaller things right. So yes, you can do that with yourself I think it’s a lot harder for me.

CK: That’s a life’s path for sure uh just like how do you describe this mouse.  you can describe it an infinite number of ways right all different kind of aspects. So you go granted more and more granular. I can aCKnowledge you for hours and on for sure it’s not a challenge.

Susan: Oh that’s so that’s scary, that’s so kind of you so I’m trying to think if there are any. Other practices so I walk every day too now that I don’t do aikido and I used to just alternate. And I’m trying to think if there are any other practices that I do regularly tell me a little bit. About yours and then that might spur me because I probably have other ones.

CK: In terms of daily practices well one of the newest ones that I have is traCKing my sleep. That’s a big one.

Susan: Oh god okay. Is that a ring?

CK: Yeah this is an aura ring and that’s what I’m showing it. I’m not showing you a ring for no reason this is wiring that traCKs your heart rate variability. Or your resting heart rate, gives you a score, gives you a readiness score. I’m a biohaCKer this is something that I enjoy.

Susan: That’s neat.

CK: Yeah super neat because rather than qualitatively knowing like oh how well is my sleep. And that actually gives me something that’s quantifiable so that’s part of my joy in life is to do self-experiment. All day long so that’s something that I enjoy doing right. Now practices I record a lot of my calls so this is actually unusual so I’ll just share more. Of the unusual ones and that way I can listen from a different perspective because sometimes especially deep conversations. Like this I may not be able to catch at all  the wisdom just zooming by. And sometimes I’m thinking about something else so for me listening to the calls are actually really, really helpful. For me to like oh Susan actually dropped so many gems I didn’t catch it but now I can catch.

Him again right so that’s a way to kind of review the day with a little bit more granularity. What else do I do I started doing breathe work thanks to aura ring to really help me basically. Start my day by hyper oxygenating my body and then I also have the meditation practice I share with you. On our call  enlightenment technique that I learned to drop into that consciousness that pure consciousness space really. QuiCKly that’s something that I do.

Also, publicly on this podcast, I shared  sort of the applied medicine path is also something that I. Really adopted because for me I want to get into that hyper-reality space. So then I can actually really look at what is my truth and what are my illusions. Such that I can always step into that place of being the highest version of myself. And I’m very systematic about how I go about doing that but there are many, many different paths. That I’ve experimented and tried and different things so yeah so right now my 2021 goal is embodiment practice. I’m very developed here I’m somewhat development yeah I’m somewhat developing my, in my empathy I’m better at it.

Than 10 years ago and then I want to bring it body so it can actually be playful. Yeah bringing play to everything I do is my 2021 intention.

Susan: Yeah I saw something on a video that I so want to try so much. But I mean when COVID lifts it was Zumba but on these things that were about this high. These bouncing shoes. So there was this much like so you would be on the shoes and you were bouncing while doing Zumba. And I thought that looked so fun.

CK: That’s interesting

Susan: The reason why I love aikido too love-hate because  I’m because I’m awkward but what I love. About it and sometimes I’d be so crabby and I wouldn’t want to go right but I would go. And I always felt super joyful after, it was like the biggest joy machine. That’s why I continued it that’s why. The biggest joy machine it’s also so fascinating because I’m 5’2 and I throw somebody who’s 200 pounds 6’2. How can that happen? It’s through because you’re an engineer it’s through technique, it’s through angles, through motion, rhythm. But it’s about getting the right I think it might appeal to you because it’s about letting me see. If you can see it, it’s about like getting the right angle of the other person’s body. Where they’re light or you can pin them so again it’s not about physicality or strength.

It’s about all of the convergence of those things to make a person light so you can throw them. No matter what size or shape they are and that to me is really fascinating.

CK: Yeah I love it well we’re definitely a kindred spirit I do want to ask you some tactical questions. I know I’m watching the time  wait a while I’m sorry?

Susan: We’ve gone for quite a while which I love.

CK: Yeah, yeah, I want but I’m respectful of your time as well so I wanted to it’s perfect. You’re right to get to some key points before we complete our conversation so thinking baCK the younger version of CK. Very intellectually is developed  has the mind the heart set in the right place.

And want to be they wanted to make a big difference in the world but he doesn’t necessarily know. What the message he wants to share with the world yet what would you recommend him to take on tactically. As a way to honing on the message that he can devote himself to step into more prominence.

Susan: So the younger CK doesn’t know his message I would say that that  it’s about a process. Of experimentation where you are seeking what makes you alive because I don’t think people think of  you craft. These messages or they just come out of space no they come out of your experience, they come out of. Your desire so I can’t tell you what your messages are I don’t craft people’s messages they do. I help them along that but they have to have something to say and think and a place. They want to go otherwise,  I’m not the right person to do that. So it’s like what is it that’s juicing you, where is it that your curiosity you use that word.

A lot it’s where is your curiosity taking you in this moment  that’s where we want to look. First like what is that and it’s evolving process it’s not just like a one-time thing I mean I’ve had. We didn’t go into my baCKground but I’ve had  each time it’s like it’s not one thing. It’s like I have a corporate baCKground, I work for 10 years as a consultant, I have a teaching credential. As high school English, my major was Shakespeare. how does that what  like what does that have. To do with anything right I was a high-tech startup salesperson  with the company that got acquired. By I think was mci or sprint  so I’ve got the sales baCKground, I’ve got the teaching baCKground. I’ve got the corporate baCKground.

How did I even get into pr well that was through like a writing class at UC Berkeley. And one of this gal worked for the north face and I was trying to move out of sales. And more just into writing and I was like, hey can I can I shadow you. And I started doing pr for the north face and for title ix sports which was now.  with three people that are two people missy park and a in a warehouse. And is now the second I think the second largest women’s athletic wear. So it’s all like an evolution so to say what is my message. I think we have to start way baCK to like who you are, what do you stand for. What are your values, what do you want to accomplish and why and I think it’s that kind of progression.

That’s why I ask those questions to people who come to me like the what’s your big vision. So you don’t have to have a big vision you can be a small, it can be for your hometown. It doesn’t matter it’s just what do you what do you want why are you doing what you’re doing. And who’s it going to affect and then that second part is what do you want for yourself. What do you want to receive it’s like here’s how I want to give here’s what I want to come. BaCK about myself in these areas that’s why we talk about, do you want to be a speaker. Do you want to be a writer, do you want  where is it and that though.

That’s your it can be your current self your future self somewhere along that continuum possibly start with the messaging. Until you have in mind the goal or what it is that you’re hoping for. So I’m a person for that to find out your goal that’s  some kind of coach. Or something you have to have the goal when you come to me or have yeah like you work. With people who’ve been very successful in business but are developing themselves spiritually. I want to work with those people who know or have an inkling of how they want to make. An impact in the world like you’re developing them spiritually well though I consider this a spiritual practice as well. Right and if you want to make an impact in the world and you let’s see how you can.

Do that and maybe the what I want for myself maybe more consciousness to be able to give my money away. Better I mean it doesn’t matter what that what if you’ve got 30 million dollars. You’re going to have to think about how you want to give some of it away. Or spend it consciously right like I mean at least that would be a question that I would want to. Ask it’s like not another house or another chat like how many do you need right I mean that would. Be my how many are you happy with how many,  what I mean so we would. But it’s about what is it and if you want to explore that’s great too but it’s usually. People come to me with a certain amount of clarity about what they want to do in the world.

Yeah and if it doesn’t interest me I don’t work with them or my values.

CK: Yeah beautiful I so appreciate the way you answer it. The big keyword that I heard is curiosity, joy, and aliveness right now you follow that rabbit hole. And then you’ll know to find ultimately what is it that you’re up to. And you will help them craft the message the path to deliver that towards what they want.

Susan: Yeah because well really I mean  people we used to think that we get you in seven. Seconds but it’s actually in I think it’s called oh god I can’t remember the term. But it’s like it’s actually in a blink of an eye. We already get you we already get your presents we already get who you are. And then they’re sort of baCKing it up yeah. So it is how you’ve developed yourself that’s what shows up. First and certainly on camera that’s what shows up first because kinds of distracting things that’s what we’re looking at. We’re not focusing on you your message who you are.

CK: Yeah the camera is a magnifier, she shows everything. So actually, on that note, I’m curious no also as well because again thinking baCK people like me founders. Like me entrepreneurs like me were very much focused on the product  and then they’re reluctant to go. To the limelight it’s not because it’s not fame that we want so it’s like the last resort. I was like oh my god I can’t believe I got it.

Susan: A lot of people you’d be surprised like even with these great things it is their last resort. And they don’t want it again.

CK: So how do you help them think about publicity and being on shows and having exposure. Because there’s a little bit of an inattention right. I don’t want to the limelight because it’s not about me but I have to do it. Because it’s part of my responsibility and obligation as the CEO the founder. So I’ll do it but I don’t want to do it so how do you essentially help him think about. This rather than like oh my god it’s a chore I really don’t want to do it.  what I mean?

Susan: I think the first part is we’re not thinking about it so we do want to get out. Of our minds and into our bodies. How does it feel because that’s really what we’re going for? How does it feel and how do I want to make other people feel whatever your product is whether it’s technology-based or whatever. It’s about the experience the person is going to have and when we can connect. That experience with us and really take that out of ourselves again yet like yes, yes most of us. Unless you’re a super extrovert we are going to be having these things  these issues about being on. Camera and showing up and then all of our personal mishigas and crap is going to come up.

That’s just the way it is and it’s not that part I think the relief of that is the fun. Part but the process people  is not necessarily is sometimes difficult but if you were thinking about. Not adding on but taking away it’s really the zenification  my I’m naming. My new course The Zen of Fame.

I’ve had that trademark trademarked right the Zen of Fame it is about the simplicity and the peeling away. To get to the essential and that’s for you and that’s for what you’re conveying to your audience. And what you want them to have. If we can start thinking of terms of really what we want then the self I think starts to recede. Something especially when we start to see the fruits of our labor how we connect with people how our product. Or service is going out in the world and having an effecting change. That not that it needs to be done I don’t mean that it’s outward-based. Like that that that that’s that we have to have  that we have to get that kind of gratification.

But I think there has to be some kind of inner gratification for what we’re doing that we want. And why we want it and I think we need to identify that like why do I want this. And why is it important to me and then here’s how we this is one way to get it. And it’s the fastest way media is the fastest way it always it has been to get it. And it’d be get exposed to thousands of millions.

CK: Let me do a quiCK recap and maybe throw in a metaphor and see if you agree with that. So what I’m hearing you say essentially is really do that distillation. Who do you stand for. What is it that you want and who do you want to serve have that crystallization and then use media. Exposure as a way to serve that purpose that atomic unit of really who you are so it’s no longer.

It’s a chore because the chores about you the self rather this is an opportunity for you to really amplify. So media as an amplifier of the impact that you could make is that a rough metaphor?

Susan: What did you say what was it the atomic unit what was that phrase?

CK: Atomic unit. Yeah that those are my what I say a lot in this poCKet is like condensing down. To the atomic unit of who you are, like purpose your value where you stand for your goals. And then use media as a way to amplify that.

Susan: That’s a beautiful way let’s take it down to your atomic unit and then expand it out. Into the media your town, your community, the world, the universe I mean okay. But it isn’t about the self that’s the small self, the freight self that’s the small self . And there’s and I think we’re really speaking to your bigger self and which is  accomplishing . We have this short time on earth right and what is it that you want to do with the skills. And talents and abilities and personality that you were given I think that’s the question and all those other things. That are bloCKing us and getting our way those are the challenges that we need to meet if we choose. Or go and give what we said we wanted to give.

CK: Now I know that in one of your book tag lines you say the art of self-promotion without bragging. Begging or whoring is that so what we are talking about is that’s what that bullet means correct. Focus on the approach itself capital “S” self rather than the smallest cell is that accurate?

Susan: And yes, and usually when I talk about that it’s like you’re not talking about yourself, you’re talking about. What you’re accomplishing through other people your mission through it’s through people. Or through your events or through whatever it is that you’re doing it’s not about you like I did this or I did that. It’s like here’s what’s happening  I’ve fed two million people or  two million people have been. Fed because this and that I’ve  abolished sexual slavery I’ve created a place where we can . Not to be so obsessed about the color of our skin or our sexual preferences or whatever that is right. Like those to me are the like important issues or  what whatever’s important to you that’s the key. And affecting change in that area.

CK: Thank you for that do you mind a few more minutes doing one more question. Then we’ll wrap is that cool with you

Susan: That’s good.

CK: So this may be big so just let me know so now we have all kinds of media platforms. Out there from Facebook, to a podcast, to the clubhouse, to all kinds to do general media, TV, radio. And all these things so from your perspective as a pr professional, pr media trainer coach, how would you advise. The founders, entrepreneurs, the visioners to leverage them rather than being like oh my God so many things I can. Be doing a podcast and then ted talk and  clubhouse and all day. Because I still got an actual thing I got to do,  what I mean? So how would you think about the media landscape?

Susan: Where are your people? Where is your audience? Where are the people that you want to connect with. And affect? And there may be different audiences, there may be the end product of your user. And there may be the investors or there may be the partners that you want to connect with but that’s what I would that’s where I would go first like where are my people in those realms with. What I want to accomplish so you don’t and I’m not suggesting that you do all of those mediums. Choose the one that’s easiest to do first where your people are so if writing is comfortable start with writing. And podcasts or writing in  blogging or getting you to know whatever is easiest too. So I think the convergence of that I often work with my clients on where does joy.

And prophet meet you like those two things sometimes it has to be something that you can do consistently too.

So it’s not about like necessarily there’s a difference between loving it and being afraid of it right. And being accomplished at it but if you look at it as how am I going to be skilled. In this one area devote yourself to one thing first and see if you can master it .

CK: I could talk to you for hours

Susan: Thank you so much.

CK: I wanted to take a moment I want to take a moment and really aCKnowledge you. It really feels palpable what you stand for the things that you say on your website helping people. Who are doing important things in the world in their own wild way I want to be part. Of a bigger picture to be remember having helped them with joy and spirit to shape their words, thoughts. And deeds and you really show up powerfully just the way  you dance we mean this conversation. We went a lot of different places and we talked about the tactical things that the founders could do. In terms of getting them media-ready, we talked about the mindset, we talked about  purpose. So really just thank you for the work that you do. And the way that you do it with such grace and dignity.

Susan: Thank you that’s really beautiful and so poetic and I want to thank you for being such a beautiful. Instigator of drawing these things out of people which you do so skillfully and so masterfully on all of these. Different personalities because I’ve heard a number of different personality types that you manage to draw out the fascinating things. About them because that’s really a skill and a very valuable one I think to draw out what’s important to those people and important. To your audience and I think we had a playful time?

CK: For sure, for sure in there for sure yeah I’m sure

Susan: well I really appreciate that.

CK: I look forward to doing this again very soon my friend thank you so much for being here. 

Susan: Thank you.